Revenue Protection - caught with wrong ticket

[WorriedCitizen]

Hi,

I have just been caught by a Revenue Protection Officer trying to 'short fare' my journey, meaning i book-ended my journey with 2 local return journeys rather than paying for the full journey.

The bad news is, i have done this multiple times over a period of a year - up to 100 times. South Western Railway will now have access to my history and see this.

I know i'm in the wrong, and i know what i have done is wrong. I am obviously now really concerned about what happen here.

I will await the letter, but any advice is gratefully received.

Thanks

 

[methecooldude]

The experts here are going to need a bit more info to be able to help you:

• We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example:
  • The stations where you started & finished your journey;
  • The stations where you changed trains (if applicable);
  • If you presented a ticket(s), the information stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
  • What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
  • Uploading copies of any paperwork (with personal details redacted) with your post.
• Be careful not to post anything incriminating or personally identifying
• We need to know what outcome(s) you would consider satisfactory

 

[Gloster]

You might start saving. The railway may offer you an out-of-court settlement, but this is entirely their decision. If they do, you are likely to be expected to pay the full Anytime Single fare for each and every journey you made without the correct ticket; for a return journey that will be two fares: one out and one back. No allowance will be made for any money paid or for any Railcards you may hold. They will then add their investigation costs, which normally start at £150. They will expect the money to be paid in full in a very short period after the offer is made, usually one or two weeks, and a payment plan is highly unlikley.

 

[WorriedCitizen]

I'm concerned if i post these details i'd be identifiable and wouldn't want to incriminate myself....

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm concerned if i post these details i'd be identifiable and wouldn't want to incriminate myself....

They will already know you’ve done it anyway. The likely outcome of such prolific fare evading with SWR is they invite you to an interview where you will be forced to reveal the offending.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

I'm sure you're aware that this is a very serious situation. It apppears that you have been evading your fares on an industrial scale over a sustained period of time and if something like this doesn't end up in court you do have to wonder exactly how serious an offence needs to be to end up in court. That said I do believe there is a reasonable chance of SWR agreeing to an out of court settlement if you co-operate with them.

SWR’s letter might say they want to interview you. They already have details of your online ticket purchasing history so I suggest being totally honest with them if you want to keep the matter out of court. I suggest researching your Trainline account to discover how many times you have done this and writing you a short, concise reply to them confirming the number of journeys you made and include the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

If you're offered a settlement SWR will likely want you to pay the full Anytime Single fare for every journey (with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase) in addition to an admin fee, typically at least £150, to reflect their costs in dealing with the case. If you are offered a settlement you will need to be in a position to pay it in full within a few days - payment in instalments isn’t normally allowed. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[John R]

I'm concerned if i post these details i'd be identifiable and wouldn't want to incriminate myself....

They will investigate your account and the tickets purchased will stand out a mile, so you won’t be giving away anything by telling us.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I'm concerned if i post these details i'd be identifiable and wouldn't want to incriminate myself....

Welcome to the forum. If you've been purchasing/using tickets for some time which haven't covered the entirety of your journey(s), it's quite likely that you'll be asked to stump up the full Anytime Day Single for each and every one way journey made, plus a three figure sum on top towards SWR's investigation and admin costs. You've not said what the journeys were, but from somewhere like Staines into London Waterloo, this would currently be £10.40 each way, or £20.80 for a day return. Likely much more if the stations are further afield. And for up to a hundred similar occasions, we'll let you do the maths.

 

[WorriedCitizen]

How are they able to prove i didn't take the journeys i purchased?

 

[AlterEgo]

How are they able to prove i didn't take the journeys i purchased?

Turn this around another way - what would your explanation be for the "donut" journeys you purchased?

 

[glasgowniteowl]

How are they able to prove i didn't take the journeys i purchased?

You would likely only be taken to court for the single offence you were caught on, but if you wanted to avoid court would be expected to pay for all the other journeys plus admin fees, if you went to court they depending on the charge they would likely to then ask for the other fares avoided to be taken into consideration

 

[WorriedCitizen]

I would say (which is true for a very limited amount of times)... i was being picked up part way through the journey and dropped off later in the journey, by a friend who was working close to my end destination.

 

[spyinthesky]

I would say (which is true for a very limited amount of times)... i was being picked up part way through the journey and dropped off later in the journey, by a friend who was working close to my end destination.

I would say that the best way forward in getting valuable advice on here is to disclose what is asked of you.
There are very knowledgeable members who will without judgement give that advice.
Getting out of this is not an option

 

[John R]

I would say (which is true for a very limited amount of times)... i was being picked up part way through the journey and dropped off later in the journey, by a friend who was working close to my end destination.

Nice try, but if either of those stations has a gateline then they will know that is false.

Besides, they’ve got you for the one occasion, so the price of an out of court settlement will be agreeing that youve done this on multiple occasions and paying a settlement amount based on that.

 

[AlterEgo]

I would say (which is true for a very limited amount of times)... i was being picked up part way through the journey and dropped off later in the journey, by a friend who was working close to my end destination.

That would be a lie, though, so you should not day that. They, and we, were not born yesterday.

I suggest you do not delude yourself about the realism of such a defence.

 

[Hadders]

How are they able to prove i didn't take the journeys i purchased?

When in a hole, stop digging!

As for the invalid tickets:

- Were they scanned at your start and finish station?
- What will the CCTV show?
- Are you really suggesting that you took train journeys at either end and a friend gave you a lift for the middle bit?

Essentially you have a choice here:

1. Co-operate with SWR, 'fess-up' to everything you've done and they will almost certainly offer you an out of court settlement. It won't be cheap but that will be the end of the matter and crucially no court case or criminal record.

2. Let SWR take you to couer for the single offence where you were caught. They've got you bang to rights, you'd be found guilty and have to pay a fine, surcharge, compensation for the fare avoided and a contribution towards SWR's court costs. In addition you'd have a criminal record and all the issues that could cause.

It's actually SWR who make the choice but if it were me I'd be doing everything I could to get an option 1 outcome.