Revised EMR Regional Timetables - From 19th June

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bunnahabhain

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Spondon goes from 1 per hour to 2 per day... :/

*edit* It appears some more have been added back in from my first glance last night.
 

Failed Unit

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Some serious butchering of Lincoln - Newark Northgate happening (OK most people use Castle anyway and LNER are still running)

I expect the timetables will be reissued soon, as it looks like a massive gap between Lincoln - Nottingham in the peak as the "Mainline" services to London St Pancras are not on the leaflet,

Hope the sort this quickly (ie before the school holidays)
 

WesternLancer

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Things are slightly confusing as those are lists of trains that will not run on their site link as per post #1, but no pdf (yet) of the timetable from 19 June that will run - which I would think is all most people are interested in (well obv it will be in journey planners). Of course that may well be under preparation*.

*edit - seems they are under prep

Is this due to crew shortages or DMU shortages, or perhaps both?
 
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Failed Unit

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PDFs are appearing below the alterations - but still have some missing services such as the Lincoln - London St Pancras services.

I think they are short of both drivers and units.

The other thread said that at times they are subbing 15x onto 170 diagrams for staffing purposes, so I guess they may have enough 170s but not enough crew to run them.
 

WesternLancer

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PDFs are appearing below the alterations - but still have some missing services such as the Lincoln - London St Pancras services.

I think they are short of both drivers and units.

The other thread said that at times they are subbing 15x onto 170 diagrams for staffing purposes, so I guess they may have enough 170s but not enough crew to run them.
Thanks for added info.
 

Killingworth

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Email to Stakeholders includes this " these amends are scheduled to remain in place until December 2021, however as our Operational Delivery Improvement Plan progresses we may be able to reinstate services on a case by case basis"

I have the 4 page pdf full announcement and assume others have too. Not sure how to add it here.
 

Andy Pacer

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PDFs are appearing below the alterations - but still have some missing services such as the Lincoln - London St Pancras services.

I think they are short of both drivers and units.

The other thread said that at times they are subbing 15x onto 170 diagrams for staffing purposes, so I guess they may have enough 170s but not enough crew to run them.
Yes, seems to be a particular issue with Norwich crews being booked on 'local' Nottingham work and they arent 170 competent yet.
 

LowLevel

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Yes, seems to be a particular issue with Norwich crews being booked on 'local' Nottingham work and they arent 170 competent yet.

There have been some amended diagrams for Nottingham crews to cover Norwich drivers and guards if need be on Worksop and Leicester services but of course if you're already short of crews that doesn't help much, particularly as not all Nottingham drivers sign 170s themselves.
 

raetiamann

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I'm assuming that when the TOCs held their franchise contracts, DfT could financially penalise or remove the contract of an underperforming company, but what if any powers does DfT have now?
 

Skymonster

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Looks like carnage to me - only Skeggy and Cleethorpes-Barton seems to escape relatively unscathed as well as the Intercity and Electrics. EMR should be ashamed of the cutbacks it is making each weekday:
  • Twelve Robin Hood line trips binned
  • Six Nottingham-Crewe round trips gone
  • Five trips out into Lincolnshire cancelled
  • Nine Newark-Lincoln services each way non-op
  • Nottingham-Matlock truncated to Derby-Matlock (so actually big cutbacks by EMR between NOT and DBY given some NOT-CRE are going too)
  • Five Liverpool not happening along with four Norwich
This actually seems worse than the temporary covid-timetable.
 

LowLevel

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Looks like carnage to me - only Skeggy and Cleethorpes-Barton seems to escape relatively unscathed as well as the Intercity and Electrics. EMR should be ashamed of the cutbacks it is making each weekday:
  • Twelve Robin Hood line trips binned
  • Six Nottingham-Crewe round trips gone
  • Five trips out into Lincolnshire cancelled
  • Nine Newark-Lincoln services each way non-op
  • Nottingham-Matlock truncated to Derby-Matlock (so actually big cutbacks by EMR between NOT and DBY given some NOT-CRE are going too)
  • Five Liverpool not happening along with four Norwich
This actually seems worse than the temporary covid-timetable.

It is designed to allow as much time as possible for drivers to a) learn class 170 and b) acquire productive route knowledge, the latter of which can take weeks or months per route.

It works on the principle of allowing something realistic and reliable to operate being better than cancelling hatfuls of trains all day at random, sometimes leaving routes without services for hours.

It isn't ideal but hopefully it'll be reviewed soon.
 

ChrisC

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What is the main reason for EMR being in this mess now? Is it mainly Covid related issues of not being able to train staff. Is it Abellio who have mismanaged the situation or would it have been just as bad if it had remained with Stagecoach? I don’t know, I’m just asking. EMT just seemed to always be reasonably reliable with clean well maintained trains.

I’m certainly going to change my plans and cancel the idea of doing a 7 Day East Midlands Rover this summer. I know if the Robin Hood Line Service has to be reduced it makes sense to keep an hourly train to Worksop but unfortunately for Mansfield, Sutton, Kirkby and Hucknall passengers that one misses so many connections in Nottingham by just a few minutes meaning a long wait to get anywhere. I will probably be doing some days out by bus instead.
 

Trainfan2019

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On the Crewe route the last train out of Crewe is 21:20. Do the last 2 trains of the night that arrive in Crewe at 22:00 and 23:00 now work the first 2 trains out of Crewe the next morning? Presumably these 2 trains stay in Crewe platform 3 / 4 overnight?
 

LowLevel

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On the Crewe route the last train out of Crewe is 21:20. Do the last 2 trains of the night that arrive in Crewe at 22:00 and 23:00 now work the first 2 trains out of Crewe the next morning? Presumably these 2 trains stay in Crewe platform 3 / 4 overnight?

They couple together and go to Crewe Carriage Shed/LNWR for servicing and then come back out again in the morning.
 

STINT47

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I booked an advance ticket several weeks ago from Glasgow to Nottinfam changing at Crewe onto a EMR service that's now been cancelled.

I'll have to take the next train and will now arrive an hour later. Would they allow me to claim delay repay of would it night be rejected as it's an amended timetable now.
 

RH Liner

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What is the main reason for EMR being in this mess now? Is it mainly Covid related issues of not being able to train staff. Is it Abellio who have mismanaged the situation or would it have been just as bad if it had remained with Stagecoach? I don’t know, I’m just asking. EMT just seemed to always be reasonably reliable with clean well maintained trains.

I’m certainly going to change my plans and cancel the idea of doing a 7 Day East Midlands Rover this summer. I know if the Robin Hood Line Service has to be reduced it makes sense to keep an hourly train to Worksop but unfortunately for Mansfield, Sutton, Kirkby and Hucknall passengers that one misses so many connections in Nottingham by just a few minutes meaning a long wait to get anywhere. I will probably be doing some days out by bus instead.
Well, an ill wind and all that - since the RHL trains are always late the waiting time for the next connections are reduced . Same problem at the Worksop end, of course, with poor northward connections.
 

Dave91131

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I booked an advance ticket several weeks ago from Glasgow to Nottinfam changing at Crewe onto a EMR service that's now been cancelled.

I'll have to take the next train and will now arrive an hour later. Would they allow me to claim delay repay of would it night be rejected as it's an amended timetable now.

I'd say that Delay Repay would be claimable from EMR in the instance you describe.

Others will know more than me and can hopefully advise further - I'm not sure, in the event that you do claim, if you'd be asked to provide proof of your original travel plans (i.e the now cancelled EMR service) and EMR's revised timetable in which your planned EMR train no longer exists.
 

DDB

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Spondon has lost it entire EMR service. If they have to cut the Nottingham to Derby locals to once and hour it should stop at all stops. i.e. the crewe to Newark should stop additionally at Attenborough and Spondon.
 

ChrisC

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Well, an ill wind and all that - since the RHL trains are always late the waiting time for the next connections are reduced . Same problem at the Worksop end, of course, with poor northward connections.
I don’t agree with you that the Robin Hood Line trains are always late. They have been over the last few weeks since the full timetable has been restored following Covid, but prior to Covid, especially during all the years of EMT, timekeeping on the line was very good.
I really don’t understand why the trains have been so delayed these last few weeks.

The single line section does mean that if there is a delay, it can be serious and take a good few hours for the timetable to recover, but that did not happen too often considering the constraints of the line and the intensive timetable operated.
 

DDB

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It is designed to allow as much time as possible for drivers to a) learn class 170 and b) acquire productive route knowledge, the latter of which can take weeks or months per route.

It works on the principle of allowing something realistic and reliable to operate being better than cancelling hatfuls of trains all day at random, sometimes leaving routes without services for hours.

It isn't ideal but hopefully it'll be reviewed soon.
Spondon has lost all its services apart from a token Cross country and a very late night so my comute is now impossible. They should be stopping the Crewe-Newarks at Spondon to provide a service.
 

Watershed

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Spondon has lost it entire EMR service. If they have to cut the Nottingham to Derby locals to once and hour it should stop at all stops. i.e. the crewe to Newark should stop additionally at Attenborough and Spondon.
Unfortunately the Crewe to Newark is very constrained in terms of turnaround times at both ends of the route, so I doubt it would be possible to add calls, at least not without risking punctuality (and that's assuming there are even the paths to do so - altering the path through the various Trent junctions is unlikely to be a walk in the park. I'm sure the impact on intermediate stations was considered and mitigated as much as possible.
 
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RH Liner

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I don’t agree with you that the Robin Hood Line trains are always late. They have been over the last few weeks since the full timetable has been restored following Covid, but prior to Covid, especially during all the years of EMT, timekeeping on the line was very good.
I really don’t understand why the trains have been so delayed these last few weeks.

The single line section does mean that if there is a delay, it can be serious and take a good few hours for the timetable to recover, but that did not happen too often considering the constraints of the line and the intensive timetable operated.
I was referring to the timekeeping since the new timetable. I agree with you that it was much better pre-COVID, albeit not perfect.
 

DDB

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Unfortunately the Crewe to Newark is very constrained in terms of turnaround times at both ends of the route, so I doubt it would be possible to add calls, at least not without risking punctuality (and that's assuming there are even the paths to do so - altering the path through the various Trent junctions is unlikely to be a walk in the park. I'm sure the impact on intermediate stations was considered and mitigated as much as possible.
It hasn't been mitaged at all! There aren't now any services!
 

Watershed

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It hasn't been mitaged at all! There aren't now any services!
That's what I was alluding to. It was clearly not practicable to mitigate the impact by adding stops, otherwise they would have done so.

Operators don't just cancel trains for fun!
 

Killingworth

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I see the first Liverpool-Norwich is cancelled to Sheffield. Over the last 12 weeks it's averaged 3 minutes late. Pathed to stop 4 minutes after the Northern stopping service at Dore it was relied on as a back stop by late rising commuters towards Sheffield :)

Note 'was'. Commuting has still to reach 20-25% of normal if car park use is any guide.
 
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I see the first Liverpool-Norwich is cancelled to Sheffield. Over the last 12 weeks it's averaged 3 minutes late. Pathed to stop 4 minutes after the Northern stopping service at Dore it was relied on as a back stop by late rising commuters towards Sheffield :)

Note 'was'. Commuting has still to reach 20-25% of normal if car park use is any guide.
...And the 1742 out of Piccadilly to Sheffield. Not good for Chinley and Dore commuters, that was always a key service. And busy even in lockdown!
 

LowLevel

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That's what I was alluding to. It was clearly not practicable to mitigate the impact by adding stops, otherwise they would have done so.

Operators don't just cancel trains for fun!

"We are almost completely withdrawing your train service without replacement due to a mess we've gotten into, sorry"

Doesn't really cut it when it comes to retaining custom just when things are starting to open up.
 

WesternLancer

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I'm assuming that when the TOCs held their franchise contracts, DfT could financially penalise or remove the contract of an underperforming company, but what if any powers does DfT have now?
DfT must have agreed it - on the face of it it looks like the '2018 timetable fiasco' again. I guess they are hoping no one will notice that...

But I doubt we're going to see an inquiry into it like this
 

Kite159

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I suspect Nottingham Trams are doing quite well with the extra custom with people ditching the railways and driving to the P&R sites (Hucknall etc)
 

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