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Rishi Sunak and the Conservative Party.

nw1

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I got an email from Mr Sunak:



I'm confused:

Where's the proposals for new/more flying or meat taxes?

What law about the number of people you have to have in your car?

I thought oil and gas took millions of years to make, how are we getting new oil and gas in the North Sea!!!

What was Net Zero going to do to cause harm to people (even if it was financial, that could be managed by other means - for example offering more insulation, grants for EV's, allowing more renewables where their costs for energy are lower than coal/gas, etc.).

Oh, there it is they want money from me to take on Labour, so Labour can't undo all those things which weren't even due to happen anyway.

Maybe Labour could launch legal action for libel over this. Taxing people to eat meat for example, it just won't happen. Can you imagine how unpopular that would be?

Maybe at some point a greater percentage of the population will be vegetarian or vegan, but right now, a meat tax would be electoral suicide.

(EDIT: on second thoughts, are you sure this isn't a phishing email, from [email protected] ? It almost sounds to silly to be true).
 
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birchesgreen

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I think its the only thing Sunak is able to do now, stop phantom laws which don't exist. He has an amazing ability to make himself look even more impotent and pathetic.
 

The Ham

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Maybe Labour could launch legal action for libel over this. Taxing people to eat meat for example, it just won't happen. Can you imagine how unpopular that would be?

Maybe at some point a greater percentage of the population will be vegetarian or vegan, but right now, a meat tax would be electoral suicide.

(EDIT: on second thoughts, are you sure this isn't a phishing email, from [email protected] ? It almost sounds to silly to be true).

The email address it was from is [email protected], I'll leave it up to readers as to if that's a legitimate email or a phishing email...
 

Urobach

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(EDIT: on second thoughts, are you sure this isn't a phishing email, from [email protected] ? It almost sounds to silly to be true).

Sadly, some of it seems very similar to a tweet (is it still a tweet?) he put out on 20 September


We will never impose unnecessary and heavy-handed measures on you, the British people.

We're stopping heavy handed measures

Taxes on eating meat

New taxes to discourage flying

Sorting your rubbish into seven different bins

Compulsory car sharing

Expensive insulation upgrades
 

nw1

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Sadly, some of it seems very similar to a tweet (is it still a tweet?) he put out on 20 September


Good grief.

I won't say exactly how I feel about this, because it would be a seriously major rant. But the apparent dishonesty is shocking. Can he show Labour are planning to introduce a meat tax and seven bins? Or compulsory car sharing?

It really is time for the Tories to admit defeat, call the election ASAP (which would probably mean May), lose, regroup, reset to a more Major/Cameron like position, and start again. While I don't wish to see them back soon, if they did that, they might actually win in 2029.

Instead they're behaving like a threatened animal backed into a corner. But unlike said threatened animal, they can save themselves long term, but not by carrying on the way they are right now.
 
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Purple Train

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I got an email from Mr Sunak:



I'm confused:

Where's the proposals for new/more flying or meat taxes?

What law about the number of people you have to have in your car?

I thought oil and gas took millions of years to make, how are we getting new oil and gas in the North Sea!!!

What was Net Zero going to do to cause harm to people (even if it was financial, that could be managed by other means - for example offering more insulation, grants for EV's, allowing more renewables where their costs for energy are lower than coal/gas, etc.).

Oh, there it is they want money from me to take on Labour, so Labour can't undo all those things which weren't even due to happen anyway.
Climate pragmatism? Give me a break. That's climate denial if anything.

If this clown ends up in power for another five years, the consequences don't bear thinking about. I may just be in a very pessimistic frame of mind (like most other Labour supporters I know) but I'm getting increasingly worried about the possibility - he's not as obvious a clown as Truss and Johnson were, so looks fairly competent by their standards, despite being stuck in a bigger ivory tower (which is fairly impressive).

Labour look toothless, and I worry that Starmer will go too far in trying to please the "traditional" Tories. In short, we're doomed. Or am I just being overly pessimistic?
 

nw1

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Climate pragmatism? Give me a break. That's climate denial if anything.

If this clown ends up in power for another five years, the consequences don't bear thinking about. I may just be in a very pessimistic frame of mind (like most other Labour supporters I know) but I'm getting increasingly worried about the possibility - he's not as obvious a clown as Truss and Johnson were, so looks fairly competent by their standards, despite being stuck in a bigger ivory tower (which is fairly impressive).

Labour look toothless, and I worry that Starmer will go too far in trying to please the "traditional" Tories. In short, we're doomed. Or am I just being overly pessimistic?

I'd say you're being overly pessimistic just because I get the strong impression Sunak isn't very popular at all, including amongst many Tory supporters. The pro-EU liberal Tories don't like him. And the Johnsonites see him as a traitor. In short, he's basically not really liked by any significant bloc. And he has no ideas, besides stoking up culture wars (and even that I suspect isn't his own idea): indeed, less ideas than Boris. He's doing absolutely nothing to fix the country's problems. I suspect many would consider him the second-worst post-war PM, behind only Truss. Completely and utterly out of his depth.

The Tories are consistently behind in the opinion polls, and by a long way. Granted there was some sign of that in around 1990, but that was before Thatcher was replaced by Major and their fortunes improved. There is no Major waiting in the wings this time to rescue them.

All they will do with emails like the above is make their dwindling tribe of supporters love them even more. The rest of us will see nothing to encourage us to vote for them.

If they did win it would say something very disturbing about UK politics (basically if they win in 2024, will they ever lose?) but I really cannot see it happening. At worst we'll have a hung parliament with Labour the largest party.

The only things that could possibly make the Tories win are a) Labour slipping up catastrophically somehow (rather than being bland and inoffensive, as they are now) or b) the Tories replace Sunak with some new, charismatic leader. The only person that springs to mind there is Boris, if he somehow wangles himself back in via a byelection, and I doubt people want him again.

Remember that Starmer (sadly) almost "has" to please small-c conservatives. It was that bloc who switched to the Tories last time due to the charms of Boris and a dislike of Corbyn. He knows he will get the votes (perhaps tactical votes) of liberals and the left, and thus does not have to particularly appeal to them right now.
 
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birchesgreen

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The Tories are badly split and so bereft of ideas they are having to invent things which don't exist to go away with, if Labour keep their discipline then the next election might not be 1997 redux but a comfortable majority is pretty likely.
 

najaB

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I don't think anyone is denying that their is a climate...

(Sorry, that phrase really bugs me)
True, it's climate change denial or, more specifically, anthropogenic climate change denial - though that doesn't roll off the tongue so easily.
 

AM9

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I don't think anyone is denying that their is a climate...

(Sorry, that phrase really bugs me)
Actually 'climate change' would be more meaningful in this context, but there's nothing wrong with the word 'climate' per se!

Ooops, just beaten by @najaB
 

Bayum

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What punishments does Lindsay Hoyle have at his disposal for this clearly planned announcement outside of parliamentary sitting?
 

Bayum

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He can punch a hole in the man's bowler hat and turn his umbrella inside out. Who cares!
The fact that he continues to subvert the proceedings of the house should be enough for people to care.
 

The Ham

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Well he's written to you, why don't you ask him for clarification.

He wouldn't be writing to me, as I wouldn't be interested in what he has to say...

It wasn't from a personal email, it was a conservative party marketing email.

Anyway the reason I get that emails is nothing to do with my political views - I just happen to have a Tory MP.
 

najaB

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Anyway the reason I get that emails is nothing to do with my political views - I just happen to have a Tory MP.
An MP who, one would assume, you gave your email address to and told them you wanted to be contacted by - or else they'd be skating on very thin ice where data protection laws as concerned.
 

Parjon

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The fact that he continues to subvert the proceedings of the house should be enough for people to care.
The "proceedings of the house" are typically nothing more than self important pomp, else deliberately crippling decision making, not vital matters of anti corruption.

The house typically proceeds with contempt for the public at large, on both sides.
 

birchesgreen

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The fact that he continues to subvert the proceedings of the house should be enough for people to care.
A lot of people do care but unfortunately it seems no one who can actually have the power to do anything about it.

Anyway Sunak wants to scrap HS2 to Manchester before the Tory conference in... Manchester. Is he just doing this for laughs now?
 

takno

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A lot of people do care but unfortunately it seems no one who can actually have the power to do anything about it.

Anyway Sunak wants to scrap HS2 to Manchester before the Tory conference in... Manchester. Is he just doing this for laughs now?
You genuinely have to wonder whether the private jet obsession is because he can't bring himself to be anywhere near ordinary people for long enough to have a conversation. All of his populist moves are so squarely aimed at some kind of parody "working man", it just feels like he's read a bit about ordinary people but just never once interacted with them.
 

Gloster

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Perhaps he has decided that the best thing for him is to upset the party so much that it revolts against him. He can then ‘gracefully’ say that he is stepping down ‘for the good of the party’ and will spend more time with his money, sorry, family. Somebody else is then left with the mess and facing the inevitable drubbing at the next election.
 

Bayum

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The "proceedings of the house" are typically nothing more than self important pomp, else deliberately crippling decision making, not vital matters of anti corruption.

The house typically proceeds with contempt for the public at large, on both sides.

But that’s where at least the public would see in the House of Commons whether their MPs are actually onside and force a vote. It’s such a big piece of legislation that is being changed and one that impacts everyone that it shouldn’t just be allowed to make its way to the Lords with not so much as a sniff on the floor of the Commons.
 

Busaholic

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What punishments does Lindsay Hoyle have at his disposal for this clearly planned announcement outside of parliamentary sitting?
Regrettably, none. He has virtually no real power at his disposal, which is probably why he gets so frustrated and angry. Parliamentary democracy, if it ever meaningfully existed, has been on a full-scale retreat this century to a point where the House of Commons just goes through the motions (or should that be the Motions?) for the TV channels and the tourists.
 

The Ham

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A lot of people do care but unfortunately it seems no one who can actually have the power to do anything about it.

Anyway Sunak wants to scrap HS2 to Manchester before the Tory conference in... Manchester. Is he just doing this for laughs now?

No, not for laughs, I suspect it's so he can create a tax cut for the rich.

I said this yesterday on another thread, this mooring I awoke to this tweet:


If Sunday Times is correct that Sunak wants to abolish inheritance tax, this quote in its scoop from a government insider is just priceless, by way of justification for the tax cull: “a lot of people don’t know that they won’t pay it”. The point, which this government adviser thinks few people know, is that the tax is only payable on estates worth more than £1m, for most families. So the PM would be campaigning to give a tax break for a minority, predominantly in London and the rich south, but his colleagues apparently think the vast majority won’t notice

So cutting rail infrastructure spending on the North so that rich people (a significant number of whom live in the south) can get a tax cut when they inherit a significant amount of money (if it's children inheriting most likely over £250,000 as few will have more than 4 children).

Even if someone were to share the inheritance of a £1.5 million estate (from their two parents, for simplicity in assuming they both die at the same time) between them and their sibling the amount of extra money they'd get would be £100,000 (so £750,000 rather than £650,000).

However chances are people likely to see bills much higher than this are likely to have put in place something to reduce their tax liability, so the overall impact was reduced.
 

Merle Haggard

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I am puzzled by the figures quoted for Inheritance Tax. My understanding is that it's paid (at 40%) on more than £325,000; that doesn't seem to ba a particularly high amount that would only affect a few people.
For very wealthy people there already seems to be the loophole of 'trust fund' - used by members of both main parties.
 

Box

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Yes, the threshold is £325,000, everything over that is taxed at 40%, except for gifts to spouses or charities.
 

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