RMT abstain from TUC "Solidarity with Ukraine" motion

[Dougal2345]

The RMT has been in the news again today for yesterday declining to support the motion "Solidarity with Ukraine" at the 2023 TUC Congress:

https://congress.tuc.org.uk/c21-solidarity-with-ukraine/

Congress unequivocally condemns Russia’s illegal, aggressive invasion of Ukraine

To remind ourselves of the leaders of the RMT:

• Eddie Dempsey - Senior Assistant General Secretary - His pro-Putin sympathies have never been in doubt (see my profile picture).
• Mick Lynch - General Secretary - is infamous for his rambling repetition of Putin's propaganda in a recent interview.
• Alex Gordon - President - is similar, a Marxist with extreme views. You don't have to search long before you find photos of him protesting outside the Ukrainian embassy wearing the black and orange 'St George' ribbon, a symbol of support for Russia.

I can't find evidence of any similar behaviour from ASLEF's Mick Whelan and Simon Weller, by comparison (although if anyone knows otherwise...).

This is not about the RMT strikes - as a rail user, I find them annoying, although I have some sympathy for their aims, but that's not what I'm thinking about. I'd be writing this even in a time of industrial harmony.

It's more of a general question to the rank and file RMT members here.

No doubt there are a few hard-left 'watch "Russia Today", love Putin, hate Israel, anything but NATO' types here. But surely the average RMT member isn't like this?

There must be a whole range of political opinions amongst its tens of thousands of members. How can the more moderate members live with being part of an organisation led by people like this?

It would personally sicken me to say I were a member of the RMT at the moment, given the antics of its revolting leadership.

But there seems to be no mass exodus. Do the average members just shrug their shoulders when they think about their leaders, because doing anything about them is too much bother?

 

[yorkie]

No surprise from me; the views of certain prominent people in the RMT on matters relating to Russia has been well documented in the past.

 

[scouseyb123]

Embarrassing stuff from the RMT and I am totally on their side against this disgusting government but this is a massive own-goal PR wise

 

[Peterthegreat]

It would appear ASLEF are very pro-Ukraine and are the seconder for the motion!

 

[Malaxa]

Perhaps the RMT wasn't so keen on this part of motion 71 which suggests the TUC is keen on getting the UK gung-ho into a full blown war

Congress supports....

2. the continuation and increasing of moral, material and military aid from the UK to Ukraine

 

[yorkie]

Perhaps the RMT wasn't so keen on this part of motion 71 which suggests the TUC is keen on getting the UK gung-ho into a full blown war

Why shouldn't those things continue?

 

[Iskra]

Why shouldn't those things continue?

Perhaps they are taking a pacifist approach, where they are viewing all conflict as evil? That’s not entirely unreasonable as a viewpoint in my opinion.

Further explanation of the nuance of the stance is required before conclusions can be drawn here I feel, although currently the optics aren’t great.

 

[Malaxa]

Why shouldn't those things continue?

what's the budget? Timescale? Unlimited?

 

[yorkie]

what's the budget? Timescale? Unlimited?

What's your proposal?

 

[ainsworth74]

Perhaps the RMT wasn't so keen on this part of motion 71 which suggests the TUC is keen on getting the UK gung-ho into a full blown war

But that wasn't the motion that was passed (unless I'm misunderstanding the information presented which is certainly possible!). I don't see how any self-respecting Union couldn't vote in favour of the motion as passed. But in any event there is only one party who is presently risking the escalation of the Ukraine war (I note that it alreadyd is a "full blown war" by any meaningful definition) and it isn't Ukraine nor the UK.

 

[Busaholic]

But that wasn't the motion that was passed (unless I'm misunderstanding the information presented which is certainly possible!). I don't see how any self-respecting Union couldn't vote in favour of the motion as passed. But in any event there is only one party who is presently risking the escalation of the Ukraine war (I note that it alreadyd is a "full blown war" by any meaningful definition) and it isn't Ukraine nor the UK.

There are too many on both the left and right who can't get it into their heads that Putin is the continuation of the tyrannies unleashed by Peter the Great and Stalin and, given the others didn't possess a nuclear attack button, that much more dangerous to a wider world. There seems to be a view that Putin's macho posturing is evidence of a 'strong man' and is to be admired for that fact alone. It's a view I entirely reject, but I'm continually amazed how many otherwise apparently sane and worldly people seem to harbour a sneaking respect for this vile, cynical dictator. I suppose some of the TV, YouTube and other channels bear some responsibility for this state of affairs, not just in this country but in the USA, where a victory for the Maga Party in next year's Presidential election would almost certainly lead to a consequent Russian victory over Ukraine with untold consequences for the West.

 

[mikeg]

Why is it embarassing? It's refusing to take sides in a squabble between two Eastern European right wing nationalists. What good has come for us ordinary folk out of taking sides in this?

 

[Yew]

The RMT has been in the news again today for yesterday declining to support the motion "Solidarity with Ukraine" at the 2023 TUC Congress:

https://congress.tuc.org.uk/c21-solidarity-with-ukraine/


To remind ourselves of the leaders of the RMT:

• Eddie Dempsey - Senior Assistant General Secretary - His pro-Putin sympathies have never been in doubt (see my profile picture).
• Mick Lynch - General Secretary - is infamous for his rambling repetition of Putin's propaganda in a recent interview.
• Alex Gordon - President - is similar, a Marxist with extreme views. You don't have to search long before you find photos of him protesting outside the Ukrainian embassy wearing the black and orange 'St George' ribbon, a symbol of support for Russia.

I can't find evidence of any similar behaviour from ASLEF's Mick Whelan and Simon Weller, by comparison (although if anyone knows otherwise...).

This is not about the RMT strikes - as a rail user, I find them annoying, although I have some sympathy for their aims, but that's not what I'm thinking about. I'd be writing this even in a time of industrial harmony.

It's more of a general question to the rank and file RMT members here.

No doubt there are a few hard-left 'watch "Russia Today", love Putin, hate Israel, anything but NATO' types here. But surely the average RMT member isn't like this?

There must be a whole range of political opinions amongst its tens of thousands of members. How can the more moderate members live with being part of an organisation led by people like this?

It would personally sicken me to say I were a member of the RMT at the moment, given the antics of its revolting leadership.

But there seems to be no mass exodus. Do the average members just shrug their shoulders when they think about their leaders, because doing anything about them is too much bother?

An excellent selection of highly selective half-truths to try and stir up an anti-union narrative.

Why is it embarassing? It's refusing to take sides in a squabble between two Eastern European right wing nationalists. What good has come for us ordinary folk out of taking sides in this?

God forbid that a UK Railway union be more interested in matters relating to the UK and it's railways, than some foreign war a continent away.

 

[gingerheid]

Why is it embarassing? It's refusing to take sides in a squabble between two Eastern European right wing nationalists. What good has come for us ordinary folk out of taking sides in this?

An excellent selection of highly selective half-truths to try and stir up an anti-union narrative.

God forbid that a UK Railway union be more interested in matters relating to the UK and it's railways, than some foreign war a continent away.

Err... given that they're willing to publicly take sides in other international affairs it's really really telling about what kind of people they are.

 

[Yew]

Err... given that they're willing to publicly take sides in other international affairs it's really really telling about what kind of people they are.

What other international affairs have they taken sides of, and what kind of people do you think that means they are?

 

[greatkingrat]

What other international affairs have they taken sides of, and what kind of people do you think that means they are?

Here's four for a start

Palestine Solidarity Campaign

www.rmt.org.uk

Uyghur Solidarity Campaign Protest - 5 February 2022

www.rmt.org.uk

End State Violence in Columbia - Emergency Meeting

www.rmt.org.uk

12:00pm - 11th January 2020 – No War on Iran - Demonstration

www.rmt.org.uk

 

[Russel]

Unions are there to support their members, not waste time, effort and money on nonsense like this...

Putin is hardly likely to pull out of Ukraine because a couple of UK trade unions aren't too pleased with him.

 

[deltic]

Given the role Ukrainian railways has played in this conflict from the large scale evacuation of people at the beginning to bring in virtually every major western leader to Kyev it's disappointing that the RMT has not shown solidarity with its fellow railway workers.

I don't understand the continuing pro-Russian views of some on the left given its now very much an extreme capitalist state where the workers are way down the pecking order.

 

[Ashley Hill]

I thought the RMT was too in love with Cuba to care about another country.

 

[Parjon]

As a freedom and democracy appreciating human being, disgusted by the fascist actions of the Russian gangster regime, its brutal friends in the Chinese and Korean (North) dictatorships. There's no way I could stomach being an RMT member, putting money in its pocket. Aside from anything else, it raises a question in my mind as to what drives the agenda.

I have searched the internet for some of the key people involved.

 

[yorkie]

Why is it embarassing? It's refusing to take sides in a squabble between two Eastern European right wing nationalists. What good has come for us ordinary folk out of taking sides in this?

Seriously? Having met several refugee children from Ukraine, I am very glad we are "taking sides" in this (!!)

 

[davews]

Oh dear, there seem some very militant people on this forum. For what it is worth I cannot support our pouring billions into a dispute which is not ours and a leader of Ukraine who is almost as bad as Putin. It surely is time they sat down at the table and came to a sensible agreement about the disputed territories in the east who have been in conflict for many years.

 

[yorkie]

Unions are there to support their members, not waste time, effort and money on nonsense like this...

When you say "this", can you clarify what is meant by that; do you mean the process of the congress motions? or do you mean becoming involved in the campaigns/protests etc listed above by @greatkingrat ?

Putin is hardly likely to pull out of Ukraine because a couple of UK trade unions aren't too pleased with him.

A strawman fallacy; do you use the same arguments against all activities by unions, or just this one?

Oh dear, there seem some very militant people on this forum. For what it is worth I cannot support our pouring billions into a dispute which is not ours and a leader of Ukraine who is almost as bad as Putin

Are you serious? I think you should look at yourself before criticising others.

. It surely is time they sat down at the table and came to a sensible agreement about the disputed territories in the east who have been in conflict for many years.

Russia has no right to Ukrainian land.

 

[scouseyb123]

Oh dear, there seem some very militant people on this forum. For what it is worth I cannot support our pouring billions into a dispute which is not ours and a leader of Ukraine who is almost as bad as Putin. It surely is time they sat down at the table and came to a sensible agreement about the disputed territories in the east who have been in conflict for many years.

How is Zelensky nearly as bad as Putin? What a stupid statement to make.

 

[Noddy]

Oh dear, there seem some very militant people on this forum. For what it is worth I cannot support our pouring billions into a dispute which is not ours and a leader of Ukraine who is almost as bad as Putin. It surely is time they sat down at the table and came to a sensible agreement about the disputed territories in the east who have been in conflict for many years.

What on earth are you on about (I could and would use far stronger language in private company)? Or are you just completely uninformed?

 

[deltic]

Oh dear, there seem some very militant people on this forum. For what it is worth I cannot support our pouring billions into a dispute which is not ours and a leader of Ukraine who is almost as bad as Putin. It surely is time they sat down at the table and came to a sensible agreement about the disputed territories in the east who have been in conflict for many years.

Unfortunately the dispute is partially ours. Under the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances of 1994 the UK and US provided security assurances to Ukraine in exchange for its giving up of nuclear weapons. We failed to act when Russia invaded Crimea even turning up for the World Cup in Russia afterwards which presumably encouraged Putin to further attack Ukraine assuming the West would continue to ignore the situation.

 

[Noddy]

An excellent selection of highly selective half-truths to try and stir up an anti-union narrative.


God forbid that a UK Railway union be more interested in matters relating to the UK and it's railways, than some foreign war a continent away.

It’s not a continent away. It’s Europe. Our Continent.

 

[yorkie]

It’s not a continent away. It’s Europe. Our Continent.

Agreed, and also some people don't quite realise that...

Ukraine is one of world's biggest suppliers of crops such as sunflower oil, barley, maize and wheat.

Ukraine grain deal: What has happened to food prices since it ended?

Turkey is trying to persuade Russia to restart the deal that lets Ukraine export its grain by sea.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[DarloRich]

Tankies gotta tank..................

See also Stop the (American) War

 

[gingerheid]

And this is why we end up with Tory governments *cry*. Supporting Ukraine, and the future of democracy in Europe, may have been the only thing Bojo got right. But it was a very important only thing.