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RMT DOO Dispute on West Midlands Trains

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Sprinter107

Sprinter107

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Itll be swings and roundabouts. The time saved by the driver opening the doors will be lost with the 10 bell closing procedure.
 
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WatcherZero

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TEW said:
Nope, driver open and guard close was agreed in principle between SWR and the RMT, but never put in writing. SWRs latest offer was the driver having full control of the doors and was not accepted by the RMT at any level.
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https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2019/12/02-rmt-claims-political-motivation-behind.html
South Western Railway told Railnews this morning: ‘We’re very disappointed because we had agreed a deal in the room, but unfortunately the RMT’s executive later chose not to accept it.’
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The deal which RMT verbally accepted was taken away by them in writing at the ACAS talks last Thursday.
 
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Carlisle

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TEW said:
Nope, the proposal from the ACAS talks was not the same as that agreed in principle before. And SWRs proposal was not agreed by the RMT in the ACAS talks.
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The RMT released similar information implying the TOC had backed down & then changed their mind throughout its Southern strike campaign.. No idea what was actually true then or now with SWR, given DFT appear quietly nvolved on one side & the RMTs been continually shifting the goalposts on the other. .
 
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nuneatonmark

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So yet again the original reasons for striking i.e. 'passenger safety', suddenly disappear when more money is offered. One good reason against Nationalisation as it's pretty clear the unions would hold the whole country to ransom for larger and larger pay rises for spurious reasons.
 
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Carlisle

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nuneatonmark said:
So yet again the original reasons for striking i.e. 'passenger safety', suddenly disappear when more money is offered. One good reason against Nationalisation as it's pretty clear the unions would hold the whole country to ransom for larger and larger pay rises for spurious reasons.
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These DCO related disputes are about preserving bargaining power & perceived job security that go with being an essential member of train crew alongside ability to stop the trains during industrial action rather than current wage levels
 
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newtownmgr

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nuneatonmark said:
So yet again the original reasons for striking i.e. 'passenger safety', suddenly disappear when more money is offered. One good reason against Nationalisation as it's pretty clear the unions would hold the whole country to ransom for larger and larger pay rises for spurious reasons.
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Where has more money been offered. The RMT have been striking over planned DOO introduction & therefore passenger safety. A deal has been hopefully reached with NO extra money being involved for the guards.

However when it comes to negotiating with ASLEF there may well be a financial incentive on the table, but that was/isn’t part of this dispute. Any wage increase for drivers taking the doors would happen regardless of the strikes.
 
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newtownmgr

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Carlisle said:
These DCO related disputes are primarily about preserving bargaining power & perceived job security that go with the ability to stop the trains during industrial action rather than current wage levels
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Dispute was about saving jobs not preserving bargaining power!
 
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newtownmgr

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nuneatonmark said:
But I saw it clearly stated by West Midlands Railway that no job losses had ever been mentioned, they only wanted to change the role of the guard?
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Take away the safety roll of the guard is the start of the process, over time they can reduce the responsibilities of that 2nd person until they are basically a security guard walking up & down the train with no operational responsibilities & no PTS etc! I seem to recall Southern introduced or at least proposed something like that. It’s about looking at the bigger picture, once they’ve got a foot in the door,they can slowly start easing it open & eroding the job.
 
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Carlisle

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nuneatonmark said:
But I saw it clearly stated by West Midlands Railway that no job losses had ever been mentioned, they only wanted to change the role of the guard?
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Correct, but as others have stated, given there’s no industry wide consensus or strategic plan on how to achieve these aims, in the meantime the RMTs essentially got carte blanch to pay its members to strike wherever & for however long it wishes
 
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Ticket Monster

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Carlisle said:
The RMTs essentially got carte blanch to pay its members to strike wherever & for however long it wishes
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The RMT hasn't paid me a penny for any of the 3 strike days I've taken part in, I've paid for it by working extra rest days...

I've seen the text of the deal that has been negotiated with WMT, it'll be a no from me. It's also a no from everyone else I've spoken to. Not sure what our crack negotiating team is up to tbh. Any guarantee by WMT is only valid til the end of the franchise. Whether that's next month or in 5 years. After that there's nothing to stop the next operator coming after us for more and more. As somebody else said, it becomes only a matter of time before we're glorified security guards/punchbags.
 
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HLE

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Ticket Monster said:
The RMT hasn't paid me a penny for any of the 3 strike days I've taken part in, I've paid for it by working extra rest days...

I've seen the text of the deal that has been negotiated with WMT, it'll be a no from me. It's also a no from everyone else I've spoken to. Not sure what our crack negotiating team is up to tbh. Any guarantee by WMT is only valid til the end of the franchise. Whether that's next month or in 5 years. After that there's nothing to stop the next operator coming after us for more and more. As somebody else said, it becomes only a matter of time before we're glorified security guards/punchbags.
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They can't guarantee anything past the end of the franchise though. Impossible.
 
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Carlisle

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Ticket Monster said:
The RMT hasn't paid me a penny for any of the 3 strike days I've taken part in, I've paid for it by working extra rest days...
.
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Ok sorry, just that it’s been posted on here SWR members are getting the equivalent of a basic month’s salary for their strike .
 
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Silverlinky

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newtownmgr said:
Take away the safety roll of the guard is the start of the process, over time they can reduce the responsibilities of that 2nd person until they are basically a security guard walking up & down the train with no operational responsibilities & no PTS etc! I seem to recall Southern introduced or at least proposed something like that. It’s about looking at the bigger picture, once they’ve got a foot in the door,they can slowly start easing it open & eroding the job.
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Over time?? How much do you think WMT were going to eat into the role over the length of their franchise, considering that even the new method of working wouldn't be coming in for two or three years pending the delivery of the new rolling stock.
You've got to realise that this is part of a longer term strategy attacking the grade by the DFT, no franchise holder can guarantee anything for longer than the length of their franchise. It is not the company that is doing this because, if they guarantee job positions and salaries over the length of their term where is the cost saving for them?
 
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pompeyfan

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Has the deal been published yet? Would be interesting to see what’s been offered for the NEC to recommend it to be accepted yet frontline staff are clearly not happy with it.
 
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Silverlinky

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Some frontline staff will be resistant to any change....that's the nature of the beast.

Guards are losing the "doors open" part of the procedure, that's it. But even that is the first step on the slippery slope leading to the removal of their job......they think.
 
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pompeyfan

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Silverlinky said:
Some frontline staff will be resistant to any change....that's the nature of the beast.

Guards are losing the "doors open" part of the procedure, that's it. But even that is the first step on the slippery slope leading to the removal of their job......they think.
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which I can understand and sympathise with, but that doesn't answer my question as to why some WMT guards are unhappy with those proposals.
 
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LowLevel

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Not sure about the apparent implication that the new stock will only have the doors able to operated from the cabs.
 
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