RMT Extends Strike Action on Network Rail to Dec 24-27

[CFRAIL]

As a fairly politicaly middle of field and level headed RMT member in a guard grade I know there needs to be a level of compromise on both sides. Personally payrise wise 4+4 would be an adequate for me. I know there needs to be modernisation in the railway especially with Sundays etc - this is something I believe most people would work with the TOCs with and find ways to save money or make the operation slicker.

However being sent that 10 bullet point list of demands was not the way to do it. Treat us with respect and open a dialogue. Most of us want to work with "them" and not against them.

I feel you and I could be the same person! On pay alone, I'd have accepted 4+4.

I recognise that ticket offices (sooner or later) will close, it's how do we get the person from behind the glass to utilise them the best we possibly can?

At my TOC, Sunday's are committed and work very well, there's minimal cancellations due to lack of train crew and there's often folk wishing to pick up additional Sunday's. Although, I accept this isn't the case for all TOCs.

The DOO/DCO and redundancy points are a concern for me, but I do believe we'll end up a southern OBS or SE HS OBM style of working, wish potentially signing all traction and working over all routes. This in turn would deliver savings because you wouldn't necessarily need 2/3 cover conductors at every depot.

 

[Fred26]

Think about that one for a moment.. As it currently stands, without agreement, how long is there a protection against redundancies?

Technically, I suspect there probably isn't, however the RDG want the agreement of the union before they start. That says to me that in just over a year they'll swing the axe, if the RMT had agreed to this offer.

 

[CFRAIL]

Gas prices were soaring long before the invasion of Ukraine, while the unfunded spending in the Truss budget was largely the £150bn energy bailout not the much smaller tax changes.

It isn't on for anyone to demand inflation pay rises when the government is providing direct support to all households (more to those on means tested benefits) to help pay the fuel costs.


A mandatory restructuring looks like the only way this ends.

The unions and employers are miles apart and government aren't going to fund their demands because money is tight and the ripples would go across the whole public sector.

I don't think there's any sane railway employee demanding or indeed expecting an inflation matching pay increase.

 

[Fred26]

well those I speak to a) want to do the right thing for passengers, and b) want to do a good job.

oh and c) have been well briefed so understand what this dispute is really about.

You keep saying that. Are you actually going to tell us what 'this dispute is really about'?
The RMT has briefed its members from the start.
We now know officially what the RDG want from us, since they've released the bullet points themselves.
I would love to know what we're missing, so please, enlighten us.

 

[brick60000]

Why are planners less likely to strike?

I would imagine because of the nature of the work of planners.

Planners work several days, weeks, months out. Planning for strike days is done ahead of the strike. So if you go on strike, you’re just doubling tomorrow’s workload.

 

[Turtle]

State pensions might be rising with inflation, but many occupational pensions aren't.
If mine is anything to go by it has a cap of 3%.
Most people have some combination of state and private pensions, so they are probably looking at about half the inflation level overall.
Pensions are of course taxable.

Same with my main occupational pension. First £500 p.a. fixed with the balance increasing at 3% each year. Your last two paragraphs neatly sum up the situation for many of us.

 

[Fred26]

If they were that far apart, settlements wouldn't have been made in other parts of the railway. This seems more about the government pushing its pet projects than getting a settlement. Of the government wishlist, the only thing that really benefits passengers is getting Sundays sorted.

Sundays should be part of the working week.
However, if Sundays are brought in for all the staff striking (and many already have them), it will make very little difference to the service.
The reason why the service is often poor on a Sunday is because there aren't the drivers to fill the jobs. Some drivers have Sundays in their week, some are commited to so many per year, but for most they are entirely optional.
Of course, Saturdays on the GN have been worse for a while now, so again, this would make no difference.

Sundays in the working week for most staff is a sound bite as it stands, because the way it's being approached won't change anything.

As I say, Sundays should be in the working week.
But I would like to ask, once it's done, are the TOCs going to run a service more akin to a Saturday? That's an improvement passengers need.

 

[bramling]

It isn't on for anyone to demand inflation pay rises when the government is providing direct support to all households (more to those on means tested benefits) to help pay the fuel costs.

Personally I take the view that I never asked the government to assist with my energy bills.

I would rather take my chances with that, and not have had the Hunt budget and all the industrial action across the public sector.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The DOO/DCO and redundancy points are a concern for me, but I do believe we'll end up a southern OBS or SE HS OBM style of working, wish potentially signing all traction and working over all routes. This in turn would deliver savings because you wouldn't necessarily need 2/3 cover conductors at every depot.

The Southern OBS approach has supposedly been quite successful, and despite what some of us thought there's no plan to quietly get rid.

I'm not sure you could dispense with a second person except in places where there are platform staff at every platform served, as requiring disabled people to book assistance is increasingly unacceptable (and rightly so) so there has to be someone who can do a ramp. Even on quite frequent services the numbers required come down in favour of on-train staff over station staff - the Merseyrail Ormskirk Line I believe has 5 unit diagrams and 13 stations, of which one (Liverpool Central) presently has platform staff. And with Merseyrail I bet if they offered contactless and e-tickets plus a TVM at each station booking office usage would plummet, and even more if the Metro Card could be loaded with cash for a PAYG scheme in some way e.g. at a machine or PayPoint/PayZone.

 

[LowLevel]

We've had a standard form email from our MD this morning saying that not all of the principles are applicable to all train operators and they're also up for negotiation locally - how do you negotiate a heading that it states you must accept on the national offer? I don't get it.

As someone whose grade was restructured within the last 12 months with the agreement of the DfT I find it extremely frustrating that we are back where we were for the preceding 15 years, on and off.

 

[mpthomson]

Not sure that’s correct at all, certainly based on the people I know, including several on 10% plus (with no strings). People have had quite enough of this nonsense now.

Private sector wage growth also at five times that of public sector growth according to the FT a few months ago:


https://www.ft.com/content/d819ba3b-d886-42dd-9be9-511134fc69d2

My private sector company (working in a UK critical industry) hasn't made a cost of living increase at all this year, save for those subject to minimum wage to keep up with the legislation. None of our close competitors have either. I don't know anyone who's had a 10% pay rise.

 

[18nufc98]

Coach companies capitalising. Just heard advert on radio for national express I think it was, with the phrase of don’t get caught out with the train strikes this christmas.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Coach companies capitalising. Just heard advert on radio for national express I think it was, with the phrase of don’t get caught out with the train strikes this christmas.

Can you blame them?

 

[Sleepy]

Tony Miles (Modern Railways) just appeared on BBC news and mentioned cutbacks from May next year in timetables or even line closures due to reduction in government funding.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Although no one complains at pensioners getting an inflation rise, and not means tested, and benefit scroungers getting their inflation increase of course. Its just working people who pay tax and keep the country running that don't deserve inflation?

As a fairly prosperous old age pensioner, I can assure you that some of us believe the Government should have been more selective in to whom they gave inflation-matching pension increases. I see no reason why I and people like me should not have to participate in the national belt tightening that is so obviously necessary. Being older, we've had more practice!

 

[lammergeier]

Tony Miles (Modern Railways) just appeared on BBC news and mentioned cutbacks from May next year in timetables or even line closures due to reduction in government funding.

Keep hearing a lot about line closures and severe cuts from May although no details or suggestions appear to have made it into the public domain yet. I suspect it's only a matter of time before the details leak out - there are plenty of people who seem to have a good idea what might be coming.

 

[Tester]

The Southern OBS approach has supposedly been quite successful, and despite what some of us thought there's no plan to quietly get rid.

I'm not sure you could dispense with a second person except in places where there are platform staff at every platform served, as requiring disabled people to book assistance is increasingly unacceptable (and rightly so) so there has to be someone who can do a ramp. Even on quite frequent services the numbers required come down in favour of on-train staff over station staff - the Merseyrail Ormskirk Line I believe has 5 unit diagrams and 13 stations, of which one (Liverpool Central) presently has platform staff. And with Merseyrail I bet if they offered contactless and e-tickets plus a TVM at each station booking office usage would plummet, and even more if the Metro Card could be loaded with cash for a PAYG scheme in some way e.g. at a machine or PayPoint/PayZone.

It's perfectly possible for drivers to assist disabled passengers. Done daily (and cheerfully) all over the Melbourne (Australia) suburban network.

 

[Cletus]

Here's a link to the scrolling BBC page, including Mick Lynch taking calls from 5 Live listeners.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-63871368

 

[CFRAIL]

It's perfectly possible for drivers to assist disabled passengers. Done daily (and cheerfully) all over the Melbourne (Australia) suburban network.

Key off driver, stroll back 8/12 coaches, get the ramp, put it down, help user on/off, put ramp back, stroll another 8/12 coaches, key on and set the train up again... possible? Yes. Practical? Absolutely not. That's easily 15+ minutes lost, now imagine that happens at 4 stations, your train is now 1 hour late. Behave

 

[43066]

It's perfectly possible for drivers to assist disabled passengers. Done daily (and cheerfully) all over the Melbourne (Australia) suburban network.

Okay, ten or so minutes to call the Bobby shut the cab down, walk back, assist, walk back to the cab, key on, call signaller, continue etc.

I can categorically assure you this won’t work on most parts of the UK network where DOO currently operates (ie London and southeast). Thanks for the laugh, though!

Key off driver, stroll back 8/12 coaches, get the ramp, put it down, help user on/off, put ramp back, stroll another 8/12 coaches, key on and set the train up again... possible? Yes. Practical? Absolutely not. That's easily 15+ minutes lost, now imagine that happens at 4 stations, your train is now 1 hour late. Behave

Beat me to it!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Pleasantly surprised that they've chosen times when the railway is largely closed. Let's hope that the government now also try to be more reasonable as well. Would be nice to leave the dispute behind in 2022.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Keep hearing a lot about line closures and severe cuts from May although no details or suggestions appear to have made it into the public domain yet. I suspect it's only a matter of time before the details leak out - there are plenty of people who seem to have a good idea what might be coming.

I would hope rather than line closures we are talking about a temporary removal of passenger services but who knows anymore.

I still can't see how we are in this position. Even with 85% revenue it doesn't take us back to the 80s when we were closing lines. Appreciate costs are up.

And what's betting many of these cuts are in the north!

Pleasantly surprised that they've chosen times when the railway is largely closed. Let's hope that the government now also try to be more reasonable as well. Would be nice to leave the dispute behind in 2022.

It's aimed at Christmas engineering work as much as anything. Which has the potential to cause huge disruption to the supply chain.

 

[Tester]

Okay, ten or so minutes to call the Bobby shut the cab down, walk back, assist, walk back to the cab, key on, call signaller, continue etc.

I can categorically assure you this won’t work on most parts of the UK network where DOO currently operates (ie London and southeast). Thanks for the laugh, though!



Beat me to it!

You may mock, but it works! (and will work on Christmas Day too, but that's another story )

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's aimed at Christmas engineering work as much as anything. Which has the potential to cause huge disruption to the supply chain.

Sure, but I've been very strongly of the opinion that purposely trying to stop families' being together for Christmas in the hope that they get a rise is sick. This isn't doing that, it's just causing standard disruption, which reasonably is I suppose the point of strikes.

So as I foresaw one of the unions crashing down on the crucial week in the lead up to the 17th - 23rd, I'm not going to complain about this choice of dates.

 

[O L Leigh]

The DOO/DCO and redundancy points are a concern for me, but I do believe we'll end up a southern OBS or SE HS OBM style of working, wish potentially signing all traction and working over all routes. This in turn would deliver savings because you wouldn't necessarily need 2/3 cover conductors at every depot.

The Southern OBS approach has supposedly been quite successful, and despite what some of us thought there's no plan to quietly get rid.

I don’t share your confidence. Given that DOO is the dominant method of working on Southern, I would be worried that the OBS role is vulnerable to redundancy.

 

[geoffk]

The RMT supported Brexit and urged its members to vote for it, but 6% of the UK inflation is the result of Brexit, according to the BoE. Without Brexit, we may not have been facing recession and growing levels of industrial unrest. Other Unions also backed Brexit, such as Unite, and perhaps this also helps to explain Keir Starmer's reluctance to call Brexit out for what it is and why he wants to "make it work".

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The Southern OBS approach has supposedly been quite successful, and despite what some of us thought there's no plan to quietly get rid.

Has it?? I make many a journey on Southern when not at Uni - particularly on the West Coastway and often Brighton Main Line - and on the rare occasions I see them, they don't seem to make any attempt to engage with customers at all. I'm not sure what they actually do.

 

[YorkshireBear]

The RMT supported Brexit and urged its members to vote for it, but 6% of the UK inflation is the result of Brexit, according to the BoE. Without Brexit, we may not have been facing recession and growing levels of industrial unrest. Other Unions also backed Brexit, such as Unite, and perhaps this also helps to explain Keir Starmer's reluctance to call Brexit out for what it is and why he wants to "make it work".

This probably risks taking this thread way off topic and should be discussed in the Brexit thread.

 

[dk1]

Has it?? I make many a journey on Southern when not at Uni - particularly on the West Coastway and often Brighton Main Line - and on the rare occasions I see them, they don't seem to make any attempt to engage with customers at all. I'm not sure what they actually do.

Compare that with the conductors on Greater Anglia who no longer need to do the doors 99% of the time & spend nearly all the time within the train assisting passengers & protecting revenue.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Private sector wage growth also at five times that of public sector growth according to the FT a few months ago:

But even if that's true, the private sector will impose salary caps and headcount reductions when times are bad - as they probably are now in many cases.
Since 1997, when did railway staff notice the bad times (thanks to NR-CP and periodic franchise settlements)?