RMT Industrial Action - Hull Trains

[ABB125]

What makes you think there isn't money to pay for it?

What makes you think there is money to pay for it?

 

[Starmill]

What makes you think there is money to pay for it?

Well the availability of resources is limited by the overall productive capacity of the economy, not the supply of money, which is limitless under the current system. To put it another way, there's no economic constraint save an inflationary one on the government spending more money. It suits the interests of Ministers to pretend otherwise so that they will not be asked to direct resources towards people who won't be easily persuaded to vote for their party.

 

[Meerkat]

there's no economic constraint save an inflationary one on the government spending more money

Inflation is rather a large problem…
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/inflation-debt-rishi-sunak-deficit-b946886.html

But the £8.7 billion cost of just servicing the national debt, up from £2.7 billion a year ago, raised eyebrows in the City. The figure is the highest since records began in 1997.

The increase was caused by a rise in the retail price index, triggering a surge in interest payments on inflation-linked debt.

 

[BrokenSam]

What makes you think there is money to pay for it?

The last year has been a pretty good indicator that the government can find the money. But I think you've got your point of view bedded in deep enough that anything I say won't change your mind.

 

[dctraindriver]

I don't want 12.5% as I understand that there isn't the money to pay for it. 3% as offered is more than reasonable given current financial pressures and what lots of other public sector workers have got (ie nothing).

Their position is pure political posturing and to be blunt makes them look like idiots.

I don’t think it makes them idiotic. Especially when you consider nurses had naff all pay rises for years. Just trying to claw some of it back.

 

[Goldfish62]

The last year has been a pretty good indicator that the government can find the money.

I think we'll all be finding out soon enough how the government wants us to repay that money that it gave away over the past year...

 

[Meerkat]

The last year has been a pretty good indicator that the government can find the money. But I think you've got your point of view bedded in deep enough that anything I say won't change your mind.

They found the money. No idea how we are going to pay it back though.
And keeping the country afloat during a pandemic is a bit more import than arbitrary huge pay rises.

 

[BrokenSam]

Wouldn't call it arbitrary personally. When you have pay rises that have been well below inflation for an awfully long time. To the point that nurses suffered a real terms drop in pay of 9% between 2010-2017

 

[ainsworth74]

I think we're starting to wander a long way away from the ongoing dispute between the RMT and Hull Trains here by talking about nurses pay. I would suggest a new thread in General Discussion if anyone wishes to discuss the merits of their claim or otherwise.

 

[BrokenSam]

In case you hadn’t noticed, the Givernment has borrowed the thick end of £500 billion during the pandemic. That has to be paid back.

I did notice yeah. What's your point?

 

[43096]

I did notice yeah. What's your point?

That the borrowing has to be repaid and that affects what is available for public sector spending elsewhere. There is no magic money tree.

 

[Journeyman]

That the borrowing has to be repaid and that affects what is available for public sector spending elsewhere. There is no magic money tree.

Except there is when it's something the government wants to throw money at.

 

[BrokenSam]

Except there is when it's something the government wants to throw money at.

In one. Haven't heard the magic money tree term since Theresa. Retro.

 

[Meerkat]

In one

Such as?

 

[BrokenSam]

Such as?

Excessive contracts to donors, £12 billion on the implementation of Universal Credit and so on.

We've drifted again so I'll leave it there.

 

[greyman42]

Except there is when it's something the government wants to throw money at.

Well right or wrong, Hull Trains is not going to be one of them.

 

[Journeyman]

Well right or wrong, Hull Trains is not going to be one of them.

Exactly.

 

[peri]

If First chose to walk away; A Would it affect the other First TOCs? (thinking of the employees worrying about their pensions) and
B Would another company take it up as it seems to be a well run operation?

 

[Journeyman]

If First chose to walk away; A Would it affect the other First TOCs? (thinking of the employees worrying about their pensions) and
B Would another company take it up as it seems to be a well run operation?

HT isn't a franchise. It would have no direct effect on anything else, and I doubt anyone else would take it on.

 

[jayah]

What makes you think there is money to pay for it?

This isn't about national debt - Hull Trains isn't franchised.

Their accounts show that pension costs were around £540k annually on a payroll of £6.4m and a cost base of £29m.

In 2018 their highest paid director was taking £240k.

 

[Goldfish62]

In 2018 their highest paid director was taking £240k.

That'll be Steve Montgomery, who's MD of First Rail. He'll receive a single salary, not individual ones for each directorship in First that he holds.

 

[jayah]

That'll be Steve Montgomery, who's MD of First Rail. He'll receive a single salary, not individual ones for each directorship in First that he holds.

Why?

I would expect it to be the MD of Hull Trains, but the person isn't named.

It is a matter of public record that Montgomery was paid £333k as MD of Scotrail back in 2012.

 

[Goldfish62]

Why?

I would expect it to be the MD of Hull Trains, but the person isn't named.

It is a matter of public record that Montgomery was paid £333k as MD of Scotrail back in 2012.

Steve Montgomery is a director of Hull Trains, thus his salary will be quoted if it is the highest. It would be pretty odd if the MD of Hull Trains got paid more than their boss.

To further put it in context, the former MD of Hull Trains has just moved to TfL to a job that is paid substantially less than £240k. So no, I don't believe the highest quoted salary is that of the MD Hull Trains.

 

[alistairlees]

These are the accounts of Hull Trains and are therefore what Hull Trains Limited is paying its directors and staff. If a director is also a director of another company then any salary from that won’t be included here.

 

[Goldfish62]

These are the accounts of Hull Trains and are therefore what Hull Trains Limited is paying its directors and staff. If a director is also a director of another company then any salary from that won’t be included here.

The salary for the Director of Bus Operations at TfL in 2018 was £145k. Director salaries have largely been frozen since then. That would make it a 40% pay cut for taking on an infinitely more challenging role.

 

[greyman42]

HT isn't a franchise. It would have no direct effect on anything else, and I doubt anyone else would take it on.

It's hard to see anyone else wanting to take it on with the RMTs current position.

 

[Journeyman]

It's hard to see anyone else wanting to take it on with the RMTs current position.

Exactly. I'm sure someone else would find the trains useful, but if First walk away, Hull Trains likely goes with them.

 

[the sniper]

Apparently the deficit for the current scheme is only 1.1%, hence why there's been such objection to everybody, not just new starters, being pushed into a DC scheme.

 

[dk1]

Exactly. I'm sure someone else would find the trains useful, but if First walk away, Hull Trains likely goes with them.

Well LNER need another 10 so half way there. At the height of Covid I thought First East Coast could donate their five units & job done.

 

[greyman42]

Apparently the deficit for the current scheme is only 1.1%, hence why there's been such objection to everybody, not just new starters, being pushed into a DC scheme.

Perhaps it is what the deficit will be in the future, under the current scheme, that concerns them.