RMT Industrial Action Update to members

[dk1]

No system l have ever heard of allows anyone to take six months off without significant medical documentation.

I never go sick but from what I know only around 5 days can be self certified. Obviously long term sickness gets full pay for six months before I think dropping to half.

 

[12LDA28C]

I expect some of this talk of altering sick pay, is to stop people “milking the system” and going off for 6 months when they’re not actually sick, and simply taking advantage of the system. That,’in itself, will save the company money and help staffing levels!!

It's not really possible to take six months off sick with just a letter from your mum as evidence of illness. Doesn't really work like that. A sicknote would be required from a GP or other suitably qualified medical personnel for the full duration of the absence.

 

[Hadders]

I don’t think I know anyone outside Government-backed organisations that gets anything like six months.

Six months sick pay is not unusual in the private sector, especially for staff with long service.

 

[NI 271]

I expect some of this talk of altering sick pay, is to stop people “milking the system” and going off for 6 months when they’re not actually sick, and simply taking advantage of the system. That,’in itself, will save the company money and help staffing levels!!

*open-mouthed stare*

If this is what supposed railway enthusiasts think goes on at TOCs, it's no wonder the public at large are so easy to mislead. Staggering.

 

[Wolfie]

I never go sick but from what I know only around 5 days can be self certified. Obviously long term sickness gets full pay for six months before I think dropping to half.

Yup, it was the same where l worked. Often occupational health involvement too.

 

[dk1]

Yup, it was the same where l worked. Often occupational health involvement too.

Yes I suppose they do. Wouldn’t know that thankfully.

 

[ainsworth74]

Five days self-certification seems quite typical. Some places might go for seven days, a few for three or four but nowhere I've ever heard of has gone for more than a week or so before needing a sick note from a GP or similar.

The idea that someone could be on the sick for six months on their own say so is for the birds.

Even if it was true, as previously mentioned, that would be a sign to reform the disciplinary process of the company not the sickness policy. Becuase that's where the problem would be.

But as it is, it's bonkers so we don't need to worry about that.

 

[richfoz84]

*open-mouthed stare*

If this is what supposed railway enthusiasts think goes on at TOCs, it's no wonder the public at large are so easy to mislead. Staggering.

I work for a TOC. I’ve seen this happen. And certain people aren’t sacked they just continue to go off sick for 6 months, then back for 6, and off again for 6!

 

[chuff chuff]

I work for a TOC. I’ve seen this happen. And certain people aren’t sacked they just continue to go off sick for 6 months, then back for 6, and off again for 6!

The industry has its share of wasters probably the same as most and the honest workers constantly picking up the slack.
They seem to be able to convince a doctor to sign them off time and again.

 

[12LDA28C]

I work for a TOC. I’ve seen this happen. And certain people aren’t sacked they just continue to go off sick for 6 months, then back for 6, and off again for 6!

But it would always be fully certificated by a GP each time, no doubt.

 

[richfoz84]

But it would always be fully certificated by a GP each time, no doubt.

Who knows!!

 

[northwichcat]

It's not really possible to take six months off sick with just a letter from your mum as evidence of illness. Doesn't really work like that. A sicknote would be required from a GP or other suitably qualified medical personnel for the full duration of the absence.

That can still mean someone genuinely sick struggles to get one, while someone who's lying may get a sick note. Doctors rely on what you tell them for many illnesses.

One of my co-workers drinks to excess when it's a work social. She often seems to have 'migraines' which most likely occur on Mondays and her first day back after time off and don't last that long.

Six months sick pay is not unusual in the private sector, especially for staff with long service.

I've never heard of more than 3 months and in many cases you need a full year of service to get any.

 

[glasgowniteowl]

I've never heard of more than 3 months and in many cases you need a full year of service to get any.

i work for RBS in itself a fairly large employer but it's also part of natwest group of companies, yes it's a sliding scale but employees over 5 years get 6 months full pay, working in the banking sector the majority of companies offer 6 months

 

[chuff chuff]

One of my co-workers drinks to excess when it's a work social. She often seems to have 'migraines' which most likely occur on Mondays and her first day back after time off and don't last that long.

Ha yeah back when we got paid weekly 'head colds' were common after pay day.

 

[dk1]

One of my co-workers drinks to excess when it's a work social.

Either you or your work colleague sounds American

 

[KM1991]

Considering CrossCountry have now told the RMT they can no longer represent supervisory and clerical grades in negotiations regarding pay and Ts and Cs, I think it’s clear the DFT, on behalf of the government have decided war is the only way forward.

CrossCountry are now being balloted for strike action. Memorandum of Understanding…anybody remember it?

What a shambles.

 

[muz379]

Agreed. It’s an odd thing to be pushing for, which unfortunately smacks of the government driving it; the savings made aren’t going to be that significant, but it will have a very serious effect on the small number of employees who are unlucky enough to be off longer term. Hence the union will push back strongly and this point alone could block a deal.

Personally I think they know precisely what they are doing proposing changes like that to sick pay knowing they would never in a million years be accepted .

I expect some of this talk of altering sick pay, is to stop people “milking the system” and going off for 6 months when they’re not actually sick, and simply taking advantage of the system. That,’in itself, will save the company money and help staffing levels!!

When I worked for a TOC you could only self certify for 7 days (14 during covid) . After that you needed a sick note from your GP . Anything over 4/6 weeks and the company would generally book you in with their OH provider as well for a medical and see what assistance if any they could provide with follow up medicals then as advised by OH .

TBH if I was a guard with the rise in assaults id be looking at getting out quickly at the suggestion of a 10% drop in pay for taking time off following an assault .

I've never heard of more than 3 months and in many cases you need a full year of service to get any.

When I worked for a TOC you only got 26 weeks full/26 weeks half after 5 years service . But as others have said , its fairly standard in the industry to have 6 months half and 6 months full and certainly not unusual in the public or private sector . If the industry wants to retain and attract talent it surely needs to remain compettiive not just in terms of remuneration but also T's&C's .

Changes like the ones proposed at some TOC's have the potential to create or worsen retention issues .

 

[Towers]

I work for a TOC. I’ve seen this happen. And certain people aren’t sacked they just continue to go off sick for 6 months, then back for 6, and off again for 6!

That’s poor management, which exists in most sectors.

 

[fishwomp]

One of the problems I see is that the TOCs have anarchic T&Cs in place with staff - such that there are always things that are jaw dropping. Bank Holiday Tuesdays being the latest "I don't believe it" kind of thing. Next thing you know, the press get hold of "railway persons don't work on Tuesdays" and the taxpayer and commuter, who works on that Tuesday is thinking "what the chuff", or "Sundays are optional" etc (but only on some TOCs).

If we're being honest, it's a mess. You wouldn't start from there. Every one of the benefits is negotiable for money, it always is. It'd be better to just agree what is appropriate for the 21st Century railway, nationally, set that in stone for new starters, and offer a buy-out of some of the irrational weird things like not expecting to work the second Tuesday after the Pentecost for current staff - but accept that Sundays may be special for some and allow that to be kept - for current staff. It'd take an incentive to get this through, but it'd be worth it for the railway.

And no, it's not right to reduce critical illness cover / policy, no-one ever knows when they'll need it. Removing it can easily increase costs as people actually want security and will favour employers that have that kind of protection.

 

[Sly Old Fox]

What on earth is a bank holiday Tuesday?

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

Six months sick pay is not unusual in the private sector, especially for staff with long service.

This is purely anecdotal, but I’ve had 14 employers over the last 27 years (boosted by takeovers/mergers/buyouts), and only one of those had six months full, six months half pay, or the ability to get that, and that was the local council.

Even my current employer, who seems reasonably generous, only offer three months. The only other employer I’m aware of in the locality with a similar scheme is the NDA who are now managing Sellafield, so that’s government funded really.

This may be a function of the type of jobs where we both live - we don’t have any “quality” jobs, lots of seasonal work, some retail, but little else, I’m guessing you are a fair bit further south, and things may be different there?

 

[Mugby]

What on earth is a bank holiday Tuesday?

No such thing but I worked for BR for 16 years and at Easter they always gave us Good Friday, Easter Monday plus the Tuesday also.
However, that was on the P/Way, the operational side may have been different.

 

[DMckduck97]

That’s plenty of time. 99% of jobs are like that.

9am start Monday
9am start Tuesday and so on.

Did you mean 3am finish with a 3pm start meaning only 12 hours rest?

I’ve had shifts like that and they are difficult, especially since although you may theoretically have time to rest most people can’t just flick a switch and change their sleeping pattern to suit.

The issue isn't so much the 24 hours it's the switch of sleeping pattern that is virtually impossible to follow.

24 hours is plenty of rest but when you are used to going to bed at 3am all week and then have to be up and ready for work rested and refreshed for a 3am start the issues soon arise.

That's why the fatigue index and the management of it, is largely a tick box exercise.

 

[dk1]

No such thing but I worked for BR for 16 years and at Easter they always gave us Good Friday, Easter Monday plus the Tuesday also.
However, that was on the P/Way, the operational side may have been different.

Yes we never had anything like that on the operating side of things.

 

[Mag_seven]

No such thing but I worked for BR for 16 years and at Easter they always gave us Good Friday, Easter Monday plus the Tuesday also.
However, that was on the P/Way, the operational side may have been different.

The Tuesday off following a Bank Holiday Monday was largely an office staff thing as far as I can recall. It was "bought out" by Railtrack for those staff who transferred across to there.

 

[dk1]

The Tuesday off following a Bank Holiday Monday was largely an office staff thing as far as I can recall. It was "bought out" by Railtrack for those staff who transferred across to there.

We never got that as a clerical officer under BR. I used to work all Bank Holidays to get a day in lieu.

 

[whoosh]

TBH if I was a guard with the rise in assaults id be looking at getting out quickly at the suggestion of a 10% drop in pay for taking time off following an assault .

If they bring this in for Drivers, guess who I'll be chasing for the 10% if I have a fatality? I'm not losing out financially because the government wants to help save a multi-million pound TOC a few quid.

Train driver to sue suicide victim's estate

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It seems a pity if the rail union staff who are on strike then turn up outside any railway premises on that day. You would think railway premises would be the last place they would want to go to on a strike day.

 

[AverageJoe]

It seems a pity if the rail union staff who are on strike then turn up outside any railway premises on that day. You would think railway premises would be the last place they would want to go to on a strike day.

Pretty sure it’s to create awareness considering the government will put their spin on it in the paper.

Makes sense to me

 

[ainsworth74]

It seems a pity if the rail union staff who are on strike then turn up outside any railway premises on that day. You would think railway premises would be the last place they would want to go to on a strike day.

Is that not how picketing works? I'm not sure where else they would go?

That being said whenever I walk past an RMT picket at Middlesbrough (Northern conductor depot) it always felt a bit like when you saw a teacher outside of school as a young person. There's all these people who you only ever see in one context, working on or around a train and in uniform as well, so suddenly seeing them outside of the station dressed in plain clothes is a bit odd. "Wait, you people exist outside of checking tickets and opening/closing doors?!?"