Route change excess one-way only

[kingston]

I have a ticket:

• London Terminals to Reading Stations
• Anytime Day Return
• Via Staines
• Adult with 16-25 Railcard
• £13.15

Travelling on the return portion in off-peak I missed the half-hourly Staines service and wanted to travel on the fast GWR service via Slough.

My expectation in excessing the return portion for a change of route is that I’d pay half the difference in fare between what I’d already paid and the lowest fare for immediate travel. Such a ticket given I was travelling during off-peak I assumed to be:

• London Terminals to Reading Stations
• Off-Peak Day Return
• Any Permitted
• Adult with 16-25 Railcard
• £13.65

Half the difference in fare = £0.25

However when trying to excess the fare at the origin station, onboard and at the destination I was given three different prices - all of which weren’t £0.25.

What is the correct excess fare in this case?

 

[yorkie]

It's 25p.

There is no penalty for doing this on board, so if the ticket office won't do it, just board the train; I am unsure if SWR have commercial Guards on their Waterloo to Reading or not, but the GWR Guard is likely to be able to issue it correctly.

Many Ticket office staff seem to struggle with excess fares in my experience but commercial Guards are usually pretty good at excess fares, but even some of them do struggle. I am a bit surprised you were given wrong information on board; was this on SWR or GWR?

Here is the procedure, from the internal KnowledgeBase:

Return tickets - change of route in one direction only
Half the difference between the price already paid and price of the cheapest Return ticket, available for immediate travel that allows the customer to travel on the route and Train Company of their choice.

 

[kingston]

The Reading ticket office quoted £19.35, they said I had to excess it up in both directions to an Anytime ticket.

I didn’t have time to argue so I just boarded.

Onboard RDG-PAD GWR I managed to find a member of staff who was sat in the carriage (she said she wasn’t a/the train manager) who said she could sell me an excess but it would be 50p (“you have to excess both directions”), close but no cigar.

I asked at Vauxhall and they quoted £9.65, they said as it was an Anytime ticket originally they had to excess it to another Anytime ticket (not an off-peak) but could do it one direction only.

 

[bb21]

When did your outward journey take place?

To expand a bit more, if your outward journey was before 0920 on a weekday from Waterloo, then you cannot excess to the £13.65 fare, as that would not have been an appropriate fare valid at the time you travelled.

In that case, the excess would be half the difference to the Anytime Day Return (£32.50) so the price quoted at Vauxhall would have been correct (albeit with the wrong reason quoted).

So it isn't as simple as 25p whatever the circumstance.

 

[krus_aragon]

if your outward journey was before 0920 on a weekday from Waterloo

Presumably not:

Travelling on the return portion in off-peak

 

[kingston]

I travelled out during off-peak, I was due to travel (only just) during peak hence the anytime ticket but my connecting train in to Clapham Junction was delayed.

Some questions:

1. Does holding an Anytime ticket mean you can only excess based on travelling outbound during peak?
2. Upon who is the onus to prove if one did/didn’t travel outbound during peak?
3. Where does the requirement to excess based on this calculation come from? The quote from the ‘internal knowledge base’ talks only of “the cheapest Return ticket, available for immediate travel that allows the customer to travel on the route and Train Company of their choice”

 

[yorkie]

The NRCoT states that if "you are using a route for which your Ticket is not valid" then "you will be charged the difference between the fare that you have paid and the lowest price Ticket that is valid for the train you are using".

Here is the procedure, from the internal KnowledgeBase:

Return tickets - change of route in one direction only
Half the difference between the price already paid and price of the cheapest Return ticket, available for immediate travel that allows the customer to travel on the route and Train Company of their choice.

The old "Manual" (before it became "iKB") used to give an example of a ticket from Hereford to Alton, where the customer held an Anytime Single not valid via travel via London, requiring an excess to a travel via London at a time when the Super Off Peak ticket was valid. This is just one excess fare; the ticket type changing is merely consequential.

A customer holds an Anytime Single from Hereford to Alton routed “not via London”. The customer wishes to travel via London on a day at a time when a Super Off-Peak Single is valid. If the customer does not wish to break their journey, they should be charged the difference between the fare already paid: Anytime Single (£38.50p) and the Super Off-Peak Single (£43). The Excess fare is £5·50. Note: This example is not necessarily the current fare.

 

[Barnsley]

Just looked at this on my Star terminal, which will allow me excess the return part to a CDR route 'any permitted' and it quotes 25p

 

[yorkie]

Just looked at this on my Star terminal, which will allow me excess the return part to a CDR route 'any permitted' and it quotes 25p

Thanks for confirming. I agree that is the correct excess

 

[gerjomarty]

I'm hijacking this thread to ask a question on the same subject.

I tried to get a one-way Change of Route excess on the return portion of an Off-Peak Return Cambridge North - Warrington from "valid only via Ely" to "Any Permitted".

I asked at Cambridge station, run by Greater Anglia, who said they could only excess the entire ticket, not one portion of it. I asked again at Warrington Bank Quay, run by Virgin Trains, who also said they could only excess the entire ticket.

I didn't want to take a chance getting on a train that was invalid for my original routing so I just got the excess as offered at Warrington and emailed Virgin Trains about it afterwards. Their reply said they wouldn't refund half of the cost because "as your ticket is an Off-Peak Return, it is classed as one ticket. Due to this, if you wish to change the route, the excess would be done on the ticket as a whole, and not just for one part of the ticket."

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You are correct and both TOCs are wrong - the correct excess is half the difference between the two tickets.

How you get them to accept this is another matter - I have a very low success rate with this myself. Maybe @yorkie knows someone who can assist.

 

[yorkie]

I'm hijacking this thread to ask a question on the same subject.

I tried to get a one-way Change of Route excess on the return portion of an Off-Peak Return Cambridge North - Warrington from "valid only via Ely" to "Any Permitted".

I asked at Cambridge station, run by Greater Anglia, who said they could only excess the entire ticket, not one portion of it. I asked again at Warrington Bank Quay, run by Virgin Trains, who also said they could only excess the entire ticket.

I didn't want to take a chance getting on a train that was invalid for my original routing so I just got the excess as offered at Warrington and emailed Virgin Trains about it afterwards. Their reply said they wouldn't refund half of the cost because "as your ticket is an Off-Peak Return, it is classed as one ticket. Due to this, if you wish to change the route, the excess would be done on the ticket as a whole, and not just for one part of the ticket."

Any advice would be appreciated.

The rules in the iKB are very clear that the excess should be to the relevant portion only.

Some ticket office staff just make up the rules as they go along; there are insufficient safeguards in place to ensure that staff comply with relevant laws, rules and conditions.

The excess is the same price on board the train; if a ticket office refused to issue the correct excess I would be boarding the train regardless. There is no surcharge on board for this sort of excess.

I don't have any contacts at Virgin or Greater Anglia; I'd definitely complain to both TOCs though.

 

[furlong]

Plenty of avenues available depending what resolution you're trying to achieve - escalate to managing director, Rail Ombudsman, small claims court, Transport Focus, ORR (that ultimately has the power to prosecute the train company), DfT (can ultimately issue a franchise breach notice and enforce compliance) etc.

 

[gerjomarty]

Well, I've submitted a compaint to Virgin Trains in the first instance, and we'll see where we go from there I guess.

Thanks for the responses. I'll attempt to keep the forum up to date with the outcome.

 

[Barnsley]

I'm hijacking this thread to ask a question on the same subject.

I tried to get a one-way Change of Route excess on the return portion of an Off-Peak Return Cambridge North - Warrington from "valid only via Ely" to "Any Permitted".

I asked at Cambridge station, run by Greater Anglia, who said they could only excess the entire ticket, not one portion of it. I asked again at Warrington Bank Quay, run by Virgin Trains, who also said they could only excess the entire ticket.

I didn't want to take a chance getting on a train that was invalid for my original routing so I just got the excess as offered at Warrington and emailed Virgin Trains about it afterwards. Their reply said they wouldn't refund half of the cost because "as your ticket is an Off-Peak Return, it is classed as one ticket. Due to this, if you wish to change the route, the excess would be done on the ticket as a whole, and not just for one part of the ticket."

Any advice would be appreciated.

If you did not have a discounted fare, my Star terminal allows me to excess the return portion to 'any permitted' for £11.15, which is all you should have paid, hope this helps

 

[Hadders]

The problem with customer relations is getting them to understand the issue. You need to get them to escalate it to a fares or pricing manager.