Rugby to Macclesfield always off peak?

[Amy Worrall]

I've just looked up the information for a Rugby to Macclesfield off-peak return (restriction code 2T):

It says:

Outward Travel
By any train except those
timed to depart
Mondays-Fridays before 0415.

Return Travel
By any train except those
timed to depart
Mondays-Fridays before 0415.

Does that mean that, when travelling Rugby to Macclesfield, one can always use an off-peak ticket?

I'm actually planning to travel from London to Macclesfield. I hold a London to Coventry season ticket, so I would be planning to split at Rugby (which the train will pass through but not stop). I would travel on (e.g.) the 17:00 out of London Euston, which Virgin refer to as a "peak time train". Is there any problem with me doing this?

My season ticket is first class. Could I sit in First until we pass Rugby then move to standard?

 

[Greeby]

I don't know about the first class bit, but yes. Rugby's long-distance ticketing to the north, where Virgin price it, is broadly how Intercity left it: essentially unrestricted.

That said, Coventry to Macclesfield is on code 2V (After 09:30), so if the evening peak out of Euston is the issue, then splitting at Rugby gives no advantage.

I sometimes wonder about the fact that Virgin rarely stops at both Milton Keynes and Rugby. I'm sure there are operational reasons, but I wonder if stopping the massive undercut that would be caused by ticket splitting factors in.

 

[CheapAndNerdy]

Assuming that the type of split you are proposing is allowed, then I think you can do it even cheaper than a Rugby/Macclesfield ticket.

If my analysis is correct then London to Coventry is valid via Nuneaton (map TV). The London to Macclesfield train passes through Nuneaton, so you could do the same trick, except with a Nuneaton to Macclesfield ticket. This is a cheaper ticket (by about £20) and is also an Anytime ticket, so no concern about using Offpeak tickets on a Peak service.

Can a routeing expert validate my work please?

 

[yorkie]

Does that mean that, when travelling Rugby to Macclesfield, one can always use an off-peak ticket?

Yes, after 0415 is off peak for that ticket.

I'm actually planning to travel from London to Macclesfield. I hold a London to Coventry season ticket, so I would be planning to split at Rugby (which the train will pass through but not stop). I would travel on (e.g.) the 17:00 out of London Euston, which Virgin refer to as a "peak time train". Is there any problem with me doing this?

Of course not; your Season is valid as far as Rugby, and your Off Peak Return is valid from Rugby, and you will be using the latter ticket after 0415.

My season ticket is first class. Could I sit in First until we pass Rugby then move to standard?

In my opinion, yes. However it's not clarified anywhere so is open to interpretation. You might wish to ask Virgin Trains for their interpretation.

 

[Amy Worrall]

Do you know how much it'd cost to do this trip first class? I'll be returning on Sun so could use the weekend upgrade then.

 

[yorkie]

https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/experience/first-class/weekend-travel isn't loading for me, but I think it would either be £10 or £15. I am sure someone can confirm...

 

[Hadders]

Assuming that the type of split you are proposing is allowed, then I think you can do it even cheaper than a Rugby/Macclesfield ticket.

If my analysis is correct then London to Coventry is valid via Nuneaton (map TV). The London to Macclesfield train passes through Nuneaton, so you could do the same trick, except with a Nuneaton to Macclesfield ticket. This is a cheaper ticket (by about £20) and is also an Anytime ticket, so no concern about using Offpeak tickets on a Peak service.

Can a routeing expert validate my work please?

Euston - Coventry is valid via Nuneaton (Virgin's website allows this routeing).

Therefore an Off Peak Return between Nuneaton and Macclesfield costing £38.50 will suffice (this carries restriction 2R - valid on any train after 0900).

If the OP wishes to do the journey both ways in 1st class then I'd buy an Anytime 1st Single for the outward journey (costing £66) and combine it with a Standard Class Anytime Single for the return (costing £25.50). Standard Class Anytime Single or Return tickets are valid in First Class at weekends on Virgin West Coast.

 

[gray1404]

I personally would say you could fit in first until Rugby which will give you chance to get the first class service and food if traveling at that time. Good luck! You could also get an earlier VT that does stop at Rugby and then change there - although you may then have issues getting a direct service so that might not be the best of ideas.

 

[Haywain]

https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/experience/first-class/weekend-travel isn't loading for me, but I think it would either be £10 or £15. I am sure someone can confirm...

It's £15 in this case.

 

[Amy Worrall]

I decided to go for first class in the end, so bought the Nuneaton-Macclesfield single. I had to explain exactly what I was up to at the gateline, but once the ticket checker called over the train manager, the latter said "that's fine" and let me through. I'm on the train now.

Thanks for all your help!

 

[yorkie]

Great

 

[dave4jackie]

I thought if you change from one ticket to another that the train has to stop at that station in this instance rugby

 

[Hadders]

I thought if you change from one ticket to another that the train has to stop at that station in this instance rugby

No requirement for the train to call if one of the tickets in your combination is a season ticket.

 

[yorkie]

I thought if you change from one ticket to another that the train has to stop at that station in this instance rugby

There is no need to comply with NRCoC Condition 19(b) because one of the tickets is a Season and the other(s) is/are not, so it's valid under NRCoC Condition 19(c). See Split ticketing

A lot of people seem to know about Condition 19(b) but not so many know about 19(a) or 19(c). I believe this is because hardly anyone reads the Conditions

 

[gray1404]

I decided to go for first class in the end, so bought the Nuneaton-Macclesfield single. I had to explain exactly what I was up to at the gateline, but once the ticket checker called over the train manager, the latter said "that's fine" and let me through. I'm on the train now.

Thanks for all your help!

Such a pity that you had to give that explainaion, so much so that the Train Manager was called over, and the gateline staff do not know about the NRCoC rules on split ticketing like they should.

 

[Amy Worrall]

Such a pity that you had to give that explainaion, so much so that the Train Manager was called over, and the gateline staff do not know about the NRCoC rules on split ticketing like they should.

At least this guy was courteous. He didn't seem like he didn't believe me, more like he just wanted to be thorough and work out what on earth I was up to!

I've had gateline staff who act like I'm trying to rip them off when I do something like this: doesn't make me feel good at all.

I think the sticking point here was the fact that he didn't know my season ticket would be valid via Nuneaton. He understood 19(c), just not the specific route I was using it on.

Amy

 

[yorkie]

Such a pity that you had to give that explainaion, so much so that the Train Manager was called over, and the gateline staff do not know about the NRCoC rules on split ticketing like they should.

Gateline staff be trained to be fully familiar with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage!? You are joking, right?

There is absolutely no chance of training being that comprehensive. No chance at all.

You're lucky if the Guards are given full training on the NRCoC, let alone gateline staff!

 

[gray1404]

The problem comes when gateline staff deny passengers access the trains when in fact a customer's ticket is perfactly valid which could (sadly) quite easily have happened here. Thankfully it didn't though. However, I say again, it easily could have if the OP had got a different person.

 

[yorkie]

Yes, that sometimes happens, and when it does people can post a new thread on here and we can discuss it (or they can make a website ).

In this case there wasn't a problem