Rugby World Cup Problems (Including problems at Manchester Piccadilly in evening)

[YorkshireBear]

The rugby league ( crap one ) world cup is being held today at old trafford. 14:30 kick off. Reports and first hand experience are showing passengers unable to board 1 train if not 2 at Brough Selby Leeds Huddersfield and Dewsbury. TPE not going to have a fun day that is for sure!

Anyone aware of any extra trains or strengthening going on?

 

[The Planner]

Heard that ATW aren't doing too well with 2 car 175s.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are Northern running Old Trafford shuttles for this?

 

[sonic2009]

Are Northern running Old Trafford shuttles for this?

Yes but they seem to be running every 30 mins.

I suspect the trams will be busy as well.

 

[DarloRich]

Are Northern running Old Trafford shuttles for this?

i think the problems are in getting to Manchester rather than from Manchester to OT

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Trains into Manchester are packed as, in addition to the rugby, there are events at the various arenas and the Christmas market, not to mention those who want to go 'Christmas shopping'. They all seem to want to travel to Manchester on the same trains. I'm glad I don't have to work tonight.

 

[Moonshot]

Add in the fact that its a gorgeous day here in manchester - I ve already been out and about , its very busy already

 

[Hellfire]

Northern desperately replying to people complaining on Twitter that they can't get on board crowded trains. One Northern tweet says they must get more carriages. I think Northern customers have been telling them that for years.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

National Rail's twitter feed filling up with pictures and complaints at Manchester Piccadilly this evening. Sea of people as far as the eye can see, platforms and concourses cordoned off due to station overcrowding. Trains running to all destinations at absolute capacity. It's going to be a long evening for some.

 

[northernchris]

Caught the 1100 Bradford - Manchester Victoria today (en route to Bolton)which was formed of 158796 in place of the usual 150. Was very busy on departure with a few standing, completely rammed at Halifax with around 20 people left behind. Time was lost at each station en route due to the overcrowding and there must have been at least 100 people refused travel. One thing which did puzzle me was why the train was not given not to stop orders particularly from Hebden Bridge onwards. Noticed the 1107 from Leeds (semi fast) was a 3 car 158 and was disappointing this wasn't given extra calls at Littleborough and Smithy Bridge unless of course this too was full

Bolton was complete chaos too, took me 5 trains until I was able to board one back to Manchester. However, the platform staff were doing a fantastic job of getting people to move down and even had a tablet to check formation updates and advise passengers

 

[Moonshot]

In all fairness, you can understand why UK PLC is so keen to build HS2 just for the capacity release benefits alone.

Someone made a point the other day that the DFT seems to have been slow to react to the last 12 years or so of growing numbers....its hard not to disagree with that one...

 

[YorkshireBear]

So what happens when the trains are finished and people still want to get home?

 

[Bishopstone]

In all fairness, you can understand why UK PLC is so keen to build HS2 just for the capacity release benefits alone.

Someone made a point the other day that the DFT seems to have been slow to react to the last 12 years or so of growing numbers....its hard not to disagree with that one...

Through net migration alone, the population has been growing by at least 150,000 a year for a decade. The idea that many of these newcomers might want to travel (rail and road); have somewhere decent to live; fall ill and require hospital treatment etc, has totally passed the Government by. (Both this Government and the last one).

Is population growth even factored into forecasts of demand for transport? The evidence suggests not.

 

[6Gman]

In all fairness, you can understand why UK PLC is so keen to build HS2 just for the capacity release benefits alone.

Someone made a point the other day that the DFT seems to have been slow to react to the last 12 years or so of growing numbers....its hard not to disagree with that one...

Not sure HS2 will help with Halifax - Manchester .........

 

[Moonshot]

Not sure HS2 will help with Halifax - Manchester .........

Clearly wont solve all issues......but as a gamechanger overall it seems to do the trick. Whether its value for money is another thought entirely ....

 

[Taunton]

Yet another sports event/major entertainment wrecked by incompetent rail arrangements. Two car units out all day, while units of the fleet sit in sidings because "it's not Mon-Fri peak hour". All the old ability of the old days to handle such periodic events thrown away. How many more of these let-downs do there have to be?

Notably, on rail we have all received increasingly harridan lectures from rail operators about how passengers will be taken straight to court if they don't have the right ticket before entering the platform. How about the rail operators now being taken to court for cheerfully pocketing money at ticket offices or machines for trains which just a few minutes later prove to have no accommodation available.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Yet another sports event/major entertainment wrecked by incompetent rail arrangements. Two car units out all day, while units of the fleet sit in sidings because "it's not Mon-Fri peak hour". All the old ability of the old days to handle such periodic events thrown away. How many more of these let-downs do there have to be?

Notably, on rail we have all received increasingly harridan lectures from rail operators about how passengers will be taken straight to court if they don't have the right ticket before entering the platform. How about the rail operators now being taken to court for cheerfully pocketing money at ticket offices or machines for trains which just a few minutes later prove to have no accommodation available.

I only saw empty sidings today to be fair. TPE have been doubling up as many as possible as far as i am aware. Again, only as far as i am aware i could be wrong.

 

[Moonshot]

Yet another sports event/major entertainment wrecked by incompetent rail arrangements. Two car units out all day, while units of the fleet sit in sidings because "it's not Mon-Fri peak hour". All the old ability of the old days to handle such periodic events thrown away. How many more of these let-downs do there have to be?

Notably, on rail we have all received increasingly harridan lectures from rail operators about how passengers will be taken straight to court if they don't have the right ticket before entering the platform. How about the rail operators now being taken to court for cheerfully pocketing money at ticket offices or machines for trains which just a few minutes later prove to have no accommodation available.

So would you rather have a situation where every single seat available was pre booked , and no standing allowed ( like aircraft ) . If so , would you be prepared to pay the premium price for that ? Also my understanding is that 75000 tickets were sold for the game at Old Trafford, and 75000 saw the game........so not sure how it was wrecked. Of course there are precedents for delayed kick offs should fans travel be an issue.....

 

[minted101]

-First post. Sorry if I missed something prior-

Picadilly tonight was dreadful heading to Hull. Couldn't physically get on the first 2 trans pennine trains. Managed to squeeze on 3rd but was chocca. Many were left behind. Hull services were 2 car.

Surely there must of been something they could've done if not additional stock. The platforms were just chaos.

Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk 2

 

[Moonshot]

-First post. Sorry if I missed something prior-

Picadilly tonight was dreadful heading to Hull. Couldn't physically get on the first 2 trans pennine trains. Managed to squeeze on 3rd but was chocca. Many were left behind. Hull services were 2 car.

Surely there must of been something they could've done if not additional stock. The platforms were just chaos.

Sent from my R800i using Tapatalk 2

Judging by the converation I just had elsewhere, you would have thought building 6 new platforms this afternoon was the answer.

Isnt this the sort of issue Wembley has every time there is an event on...certainly was hard going last time I went to a cup final. Indeed one year I went in the 70s, the train to London I was on caught fire!!

 

[northernchris]

Yet another sports event/major entertainment wrecked by incompetent rail arrangements. Two car units out all day, while units of the fleet sit in sidings because "it's not Mon-Fri peak hour". All the old ability of the old days to handle such periodic events thrown away. How many more of these let-downs do there have to be?

From what I saw there were plenty of Northern units doubled up, and across a number of routes, and only saw 2x142s on Newton Heath around 1700 whereas there's usually a few units sat spare. The problem is ideally the majority of services across the North Manchester area in particular could do with being at least 3 coaches and there simply aren't enough units available to do this

 

[ushawk]

Probably also wont help now theres an ill passenger at Deansgate.

 

[Moonshot]

From what I saw there were plenty of Northern units doubled up, and across a number of routes, and only saw 2x142s on Newton Heath around 1700 whereas there's usually a few units sat spare. The problem is ideally the majority of services across the North Manchester area in particular could do with being at least 3 coaches and there simply aren't enough units available to do this

In my neck of the woods , there is a recently opened extension of the tram network up to Ashton. The doom merchants were telling me some time ago that no one would use it from Ashton as the Northern Rail service is quicker and cheaper. But I ve been astonished to see just how well used it is already ....Im just a mile away from Ashton right on the route itself.

 

[6Gman]

Isn't the issue here simply the way the railway is structured.

The Train Operators are commercial companies who simply have no incentive to provide additional capacity for occasional events.

Beyond their own resources - and it sounds as though TPE and Northern were using their available units - the cost of 'hiring in' any additional stock + cost of moving them around would provide no corresponding income.

Toward the end of my railway career I had some involvement in such 'hiring in' and the costs were just silly - £70 for an East Coast Traincrew Supervisor to arrange a taxi Edinburgh - Craigentinny. Stabling stock on 'somebody else's siding' at Aberdeen was so expensive we ran ECS to Edinburgh and back!

My suggestion? A single public railway operation. Give it a budget. Let it get on with providing the best service it can within that budget.

 

[Moonshot]

Isn't the issue here simply the way the railway is structured.

The Train Operators are commercial companies who simply have no incentive to provide additional capacity for occasional events.

Beyond their own resources - and it sounds as though TPE and Northern were using their available units - the cost of 'hiring in' any additional stock + cost of moving them around would provide no corresponding income.

Toward the end of my railway career I had some involvement in such 'hiring in' and the costs were just silly - £70 for an East Coast Traincrew Supervisor to arrange a taxi Edinburgh - Craigentinny. Stabling stock on 'somebody else's siding' at Aberdeen was so expensive we ran ECS to Edinburgh and back!

My suggestion? A single public railway operation. Give it a budget. Let it get on with providing the best service it can within that budget.

And what would you suggest should be the split between the taxpayer and fare payer?

 

[johnnychips]

In my neck of the woods , there is a recently opened extension of the tram network up to Ashton. The doom merchants were telling me some time ago that no one would use it from Ashton as the Northern Rail service is quicker and cheaper. But I've been astonished to see just how well used it is already ....I'm just a mile away from Ashton right on the route itself.

Indeed, it might be nice if the new Metrolink takes a bit of pressure off the NR services. OK, there are a lot of stops, but if it drops you off in the right bit of Manchester you want, it might be preferable to Victoria. And as Ashton is the terminus of the tram, you may be able to easily get a seat, compared with a train that's stopped everywhere from Huddersfield in the peak period.

 

[Llanigraham]

They seem to be able to cope quite well in Cardiff for the rugby.

 

[Moonshot]

Indeed, it might be nice if the new Metrolink takes a bit of pressure off the NR services. OK, there are a lot of stops, but if it drops you off in the right bit of Manchester you want, it might be preferable to Victoria. And as Ashton is the terminus of the tram, you may be able to easily get a seat, compared with a train that's stopped everywhere from Huddersfield in the peak period.

To a certain extent that is true, though I have no idea what effect is has actually had on passengers who were actually using the Northern Service from Ashton ( though I might find out before too long as I m due to start working for them in 10 days !! )

I ve used this new tram quite a bit since its opened, its great value for money ( but vfm in my eyes might be different from others ), and I cannot argue with the fact that its 5 times and hour, very punctual and clean. It needs to do a bit of work on linespeed, though I did spot one tonite tearing up the road at a fair lick packed to the rafters !!

 

[northernchris]

Passenger loadings may have been increased as there were no rail services to Ashton today, but if Metrolink can help to reduce overcrowding on the Huddersfield line it may allow Northern to reallocate units to the horrendously busy Bolton corridor

 

[Moonshot]

Passenger loadings may have been increased as there were no rail services to Ashton today, but if Metrolink can help to reduce overcrowding on the Huddersfield line it may allow Northern to reallocate units to the horrendously busy Bolton corridor

Think all corridors have gotten busier over the last few years Chris, though Bolton is due to get wires before too long, so assuming that no one makes alternative arrangements now that TPE have transfered the Scotland runs through Wigan , there obviously will be an issue in the short term. I ll actually find out for myself as well, as that will be my commute for the next 3 or 4 month!!