Bletchleyite
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It's quite deliberate on the part of easyJet - Ryanair would have crushed them with their low fares, so they've tended to steer clear of competing directly and go for a slightly different market.
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Ryanair and Easyjet
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It's quite deliberate on the part of easyJet - Ryanair would have crushed them with their low fares, so they've tended to steer clear of competing directly and go for a slightly different market.
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easyJet did fly London to Dublin for a while. I did think that didn't make sense and that service didn't last long.
Yes, the market in Dublin in particular is close to saturation I reckon. The aggressive competition between Ryanair and Aer Lingus means that easyJet simply wouldn't survive.
scotsman
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It's also the busiest air route (by traffic) on earth - 91 flights a day
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Crikey, I'd have said that would be in America, where planes are like trains to us.
Case for some widebodies there? Or at the very least B737-900s/A321s?
I assume you're just looking at London airports - Dublin (which also faces competition from BA, flyBe and Cityjet). As true as it is that that flow is pretty saturated, I was actually also referring to short haul traffic from Dublin in general. With the aggressive competition between Aer Lingus and Ryanair, there's precious little room for other non-established carriers to muscle in. The big success stories are primarily to other European hubs (e.g. LH to Frankfurt).
Actually, according to Wikipedia, the London-Dublin is far from the biggest in the world (in terms of daily flights between city pairs). 91 flights a day is impressive, but the busiest air route in the world measured by daily flights is Rio de Janeiro to Sao Paolo - with a whopping 284 flights a day! (Source)
Interestingly, the load factor on London-Dublin flights seems to be pretty low. Using the data on Wikipedia, I'm getting an average of just 47 passengers on each flight compared to 81 passengers/flight between Los Angeles and San Francisco for example.
(I calculated this by dividing the total annual passenger passenger numbers by 365, and then again by the number of flights in a day. This does not account for variations in demand on a day-day basis, nor variations in scheduling).
Actually, according to Wikipedia, the London-Dublin is far from the biggest in the world (in terms of daily flights between city pairs). 91 flights a day is impressive, but the busiest air route in the world measured by daily flights is Rio de Janeiro to Sao Paolo - with a whopping 284 flights a day! (Source)
Interestingly, the load factor on London-Dublin flights seems to be pretty low. Using the data on Wikipedia, I'm getting an average of just 47 passengers on each flight compared to 81 passengers/flight between Los Angeles and San Francisco for example.
(I calculated this by dividing the total annual passenger passenger numbers by 365, and then again by the number of flights in a day. This does not account for variations in demand on a day-day basis, nor variations in scheduling).
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Indeed, but it seems competition is increasing between the big five low cost carriers. According to analysis* by Anna.Aero, Ryanair now compete with IAG-owned Spanish low cost carrier Vueling on 55 routes, ahead of easyJet at 42 routes operated in direct competition. Vueling are also launching an offensive on easyJet this year, they're opening up many UK routes including Luton-Amsterdam which is one of the oldest easyJet routes.
*Source: http://www.anna.aero/2016/01/13/easyjet-norwegian-ryanair-vueling-wizz-air-competing-more/
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easyJet also have to defend their core markets though, Ryanair is launching Belfast (Int.) - Gatwick this year, which is a really important market for easyJet. Expect to see a lot of bargain fares.
... oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear. I mean, I am partial to a crisp sandwich but... oh dear.
I hope this is only for the economy "buy on board" options on their short haul flights. I'd be very concerned if that was being distributed for the complimentary meals on their long haul routes!
I hope this is only for the economy "buy on board" options on their short haul flights. I'd be very concerned if that was being distributed for the complimentary meals on their long haul routes!
Apparently only available in business class on trans atlantic flights.
It is interesting to read about your Ryanair experience. I don't use Ryanair, but I have seen people standing at the gate waiting to get on the Ryanair plane that has not even arrived - many times
. It doesn't seem like a great experience. My own reason for now flying Ryanair is that I don't like the way they treat their staff (terms, conditions and pay). I have flown Easyjet many times, and found them to be okay, especially now they have allocated seating. But, the last few times have been chaotic. Each time the queues at 'bag drop' were huge (45 min plus wait), just down to not having the staff to process the people. They also run out of food on the plane on every flight (by ran out, I mean it left the airport without restocking). It seems that they are cutting costs to the point of impacting on service, which is just greed.
So, Ryanair or Easyjet for me? Neither. I now stick with Flybe, British Airways and Iberia. Flybe is good (even offering changable tickets), while the latter two I have found to be excellent. It means sometimes taking a longer route, or paying a bit more, but it is worth it for an enjoyable travel experience... should I mention this... I am enjoying flying with those three very much to the point that flying has become as much fun as trains
. My last journey was with Iberia to Madrid, and it was just wonderful.Robertj21a
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It is interesting to read about your Ryanair experience. I don't use Ryanair, but I have seen people standing at the gate waiting to get on the Ryanair plane that has not even arrived - many times
.
I really struggle to believe this. I've travelled on Ryanair so very many times and never had any real problems, just a few people who are 'professional whingers'. I've certainly never had a Ryanair plane not arrive - and yet you say '.....many times'. Sorry, it just doesn't sound true - can you provide some facts please ?
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Because of the short turnarounds Ryanair passengers for the outbound flight will sometimes be at the gate before the inbound flight has arrived. It's happened to me relatively often, but it's a consequence of Ryanair having 20-minute turnarounds at the small airports rather than an issue with Ryanair punctuality or reliability.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You've not yet experienced the reason why they are often known as Flymaybe, then? Perhaps it's just the domestics, but they do not at all have a good track record for punctuality and reliability.
By the way, all easyJet and Ryanair tickets are changeable, you just pay a fee plus the difference in fare. They also both offer more flexible tickets, but unless you're going to do more than one change they aren't really worth it. And easyJet have the thing where you can get an earlier flight for free if there is space.
Yes, Manchester airport 11th Sep 2015. I'm not saying the plane didn't run, I'm talking about the waiting to get a plane that's not there yet. Three Ryanair flights, passengers waiting at the gate to board for 20 - 40 minutes before the plane even arrives let alone everyone gets off. Sorry, I don't have flight numbers etc if that is what you are looking for :roll:. Funny thing is I don't feel the need to winge when I fly with other airlines
, and I'm not even winging about those flights - I wasn't on them. As I said, it was Easyjet that I commented on the customer service of. The reason for not flying Ryanair is the way they treat their staff.Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
People do that because of habit. There is no need to do it now there is allocated seating, unless you have a stupid amount of hand luggage.
Yes, they do. But on those occasions I am speaking about everyone was asked and announced to board, due to the layout they didn't see there was no plane at the gate.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It does take a bit of understanding that in a low-cost context the word "boarding" refers to the scanning of boarding passes and *not* to actually getting on the plane.
People also like to stand and queue even if you told them the plane wasn't ready. Maybe it hadn't quite sunk in that they have an allocated seat, and that the plane won't leave until the people behind have got on.
I guess the fear is that the overhead lockers will be full if they board late, but I now always take a flexible bag I can squash under the seat so it's never a problem for me. I can therefore stay seated and board last, stress free!
A few people do just this and are obviously more regular travellers.
I guess the fear is that the overhead lockers will be full if they board late, but I now always take a flexible bag I can squash under the seat so it's never a problem for me. I can therefore stay seated and board last, stress free!
A few people do just this and are obviously more regular travellers.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Doesn't help that the gates very rarely have enough seating for a plane's worth of people, so if they can't sit down people will probably just form a queue. If the previous leg is delayed they will know at least an hour beforehand that the next leg is also going to be delayed, and they should delay the gate announcement to allow passengers to enjoy the relative luxury of the departure lounge (and spend more money, so the airports ought to be in favour).
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Equally, passengers need to learn that "go to gate" means "you can go to the gate" and you don't *have* to until it goes red.
Though the airlines won't tell them that, as it's easier to have them all there.
Though the airlines won't tell them that, as it's easier to have them all there.
Flew out of Stansted this morning to Vienna, the Ryanair and easyJet flights are boarded like that with lots of waiting in corridors. A bit hectic at a big place like Stansted. However, I flew Eurowings who don't seem to bother with that, they use airbridges and only board once the aircraft is ready. They're probably my favourite low cost carrier, the fare was great value and they give you a little extra quality.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
With slEasy I tend to book a premium seat for the legroom, then stay sat down until I can board at the rear of the speedy queue. Still plenty of bag space by then.
I don't even think the so-called budget airlines are that cheap, and in my experience are almost always more expensive when you want to take a suitcase.
Recent examples of trips I've looked at in the past year where a non-budget airline has been better:
Dublin -> London = CityJet were offering a flight with baggage for £21.90 (plus I got a £5 off voucher from Opodo for "Liking" their page on Facebook). I didn't even need the baggage on this occasion, but it was still cheaper than the starting price of the budget airlines for the time I was travelling.
London -> Berlin (and back) = British Airways holidays offered a package deal with return flight including baggage, and 3 nights in a hotel, for £515 for the three of us. Again, I didn't need the baggage on this occasion, yet it was still significantly cheaper when the hotel was factored in.
Glasgow -> London = British Airways offered a later flight time for almost the same price as one of the budget carriers.
Bristol -> Dublin = Ryanair had a cheap flight, but when baggage was added on, took them over the price of Aer Lingus' mid-range option that includes baggage. In the end decided to travel with Avios from London.
Plus, if you collect Avios, which is easy to do with a good credit card, BA is almost always cheaper, as single flights within Europe, as well as domestic flights are £17.50, including baggage.
Recent examples of trips I've looked at in the past year where a non-budget airline has been better:
Dublin -> London = CityJet were offering a flight with baggage for £21.90 (plus I got a £5 off voucher from Opodo for "Liking" their page on Facebook). I didn't even need the baggage on this occasion, but it was still cheaper than the starting price of the budget airlines for the time I was travelling.
London -> Berlin (and back) = British Airways holidays offered a package deal with return flight including baggage, and 3 nights in a hotel, for £515 for the three of us. Again, I didn't need the baggage on this occasion, yet it was still significantly cheaper when the hotel was factored in.
Glasgow -> London = British Airways offered a later flight time for almost the same price as one of the budget carriers.
Bristol -> Dublin = Ryanair had a cheap flight, but when baggage was added on, took them over the price of Aer Lingus' mid-range option that includes baggage. In the end decided to travel with Avios from London.
Plus, if you collect Avios, which is easy to do with a good credit card, BA is almost always cheaper, as single flights within Europe, as well as domestic flights are £17.50, including baggage.
Only from London.
I spent 75,950 for the 4 of us to go SYD-MEL-AKL-SYD in August, and another c. 500,000 and a variety of upgrade and two-for-one vouchers for the MAN-LHR-SIN-SYD and return files. I've still got 232,368 left, so I'm no stranger to earning or using them.
However about a year ago they changed everything about europe, and caused a 9,000 + £35 avios return from Manchester to London to cost 18,000 and £70, and that wasn't on. Since then I've flown BA on two flights aside from the avios ones above. In 2014 I think I did over 100 BA flights, and in 2013 I certainly did.
Iskra
Established Member
It's happened to me lots, and I've flown with them 4-12 times a year for the last 8 years or so.
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Yes, but if you're in the back half of the queue and travelling with hand luggage only because you're in a rush at the other end, they start telling you you can't take your bag in the cabin and it must go in the hold. This can then delay you significantly at your arrival airport, which defeats the point of hand-luggage somewhat...
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button_boxer
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I was caught out by this recently flying Easyjet from Manchester to Copenhagen (the best option for the times I needed to be there), they tried to make me put my hand-luggage-sized musical instrument in the hold because there "wasn't enough room in the overhead bins". No way that was possible, but they were absolutely insistent, eventually they allowed me to take the instruments out of the case and carry them on separately, putting the empty case in the hold.
When I got to my seat there was a big space in the locker above it, exactly the right size and shape for the case I'd just been forced to hand over... I filled the space with my instruments (wrapped in coats), and thus ended up using exactly twice as much storage volume on the plane as I would have had they let me keep the case!
I have not once stood waiting at the gate for ages to be honest. Everyone travels differently though of course. The last 3 years I have been on 8 to 10 flights a year on Budget airlines, I tend to have a list of places I want to go and then choose the most stupidly cheap. Next month I am off to Riga for £50 there and back with Ryanair, in April I am going to Budapest with Wizzair for £52 there and back, later in the year we plan on going to Bucharest with Blue Air but that isn't booked yet. Not found a legacy carrier who can do any of these trips for less.
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