Safety Record

[Mutant Lemming]

Preserved and Heritage lines appear to have an excellent safety record with regards to accidents involving loss of life. Is this actually the case as the only incident I can recall is something on the Ruislip Lido Railway some years back.

 

[AlexS]

They have occurred - a driver was killed on the RHDR in a crossing collision a few years back, and I believe the Mid Hants has had at least one fatality with someone falling under a train as it was departing.

Doesn't happen particularly often that said and you wouldn't expect it to.

 

[Greenback]

I believe that there has also been a fatality on the Gwili Railway.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Mid-Hants has had 2 fatalities.

The Gwili incident I suggest all in the heritage sector read the report on. There is a lot to learn.

 

[headshot119]

Have you got a link to the RAIB report?

 

[12CSVT]

Wasn't the RDHR accident caused by somebody jumping the level crossing lights ?

 

[richw]

Wasn't the RDHR accident caused by somebody jumping the level crossing lights ?

From wikipedia, this happened in 2003 and again in 2005, an extract from wikipedia suggests on both occasions the car driver was at fault, both incidents resulted in the train driver being killed.

Over the many years of operation there have been a number of serious accidents. Amongst the most recent, on 3 August 2003 a car and train were in collision at an ungated level crossing, protected by flashing warning lights. The train driver, 31-year-old Kevin Crouch, died; some passengers were treated for shock and minor injuries; locomotive number 5 (Hercules) was seriously damaged. The female car driver, whose baby was a passenger in the vehicle, had ignored or failed to see the warning lights. The woman and her baby were taken to hospital, but were not badly hurt. The railway and the Health and Safety Executive instigated an investigation, and the woman was arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving. Although acquitted, she was found guilty of the lesser charge of careless driving. On 10 July 2005 a car and train were in collision at another level crossing under similar circumstances. The driver of the train, Suzanne Martin, wife of the railway's general manager, Danny Martin, was killed; several passengers were treated for shock; locomotive number 8 (Hurricane) was seriously damaged. The car driver, a 20-year-old man, had ignored or failed to see warning lights; he was arrested at the scene, and later bailed by Kent Police.

Following the two incidents detailed above, the railway has begun a programme of level crossing refurbishment. There are a number of 'occupation crossings' where the railway meets farm tracks, with local control; but of the eighteen junctions of the railway with public highways, five are road bridges, and the other thirteen are level crossings. All level crossings have been protected since the 1970s by flashing warning lights (AOCL); the refurbishment programme will see the additional installation of lifting half-barriers, upgrading the crossing to ABCL status, each refurbishment costing around £90,000. Those already altered in this manner are Burmarsh Road (site of the 2003 accident), Battery Road (site of the 2005 accident), Botolph's Bridge Road, and St Mary's Road in Dymchurch. The next level crossing to be upgraded will be Jefferstone Lane, adjacent to St Mary’s Bay station

 

[Teaboy1]

I have to admit being saddened by these events especially when 99% of loco drivers are volunteers .... and paying the ultimate price ...... deepest regrets and sympathy to those families affect by all rail deaths, narrow or standard gauge, preserved or on main lines etc.

Difficult to imagine how a tiny RHDR loco would fare against a car but the loco driver has no protection what so ever as I believe they sit in the tender space and likely to be thrown out if the loco rolls over. Don't bear thinking about !!!!

 

[John Webb]

Recent rail accident reports regarding Heritage Railways are available at http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/reports_by_type_of_railway/heritage_railways.cfm and goes back to 2006. Older reports may be available on the railway archive site whose URL I can't find at the moment!

 

[umontu]

Have you got a link to the RAIB report?

5 seconds google search
http://www.raib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_reports/reports_2007/report222007.cfm

 

[Roylang]

Mid-Hants has had 2 fatalities.

The Gwili incident I suggest all in the heritage sector read the report on. There is a lot to learn.

My work colleagues and I were on the Real Ale train when one of the fatalities occured at the MHR (1 December 2007), when was the second? I am a life member at the railway and have never heard mention of another fatality.

Thanks,

Roy

 

[ralphchadkirk]

My work colleagues and I were on the Real Ale train when one of the fatalities occured at the MHR (1 December 2007), when was the second? I am a life member at the railway and have never heard mention of another fatality.

Thanks,

Roy

The second I have only heard rumours of (it was way back in the '80s I think). I am told that a fireman decided to climb up onto a tender to move coal forward whilst the train was in motion. Sadly, the fireman hit a bridge and was killed.

 

[spurs4life]

Preserved and Heritage lines have much better safety records than say a Air Show that always seems to have crashes and deaths all the time.

 

[SS4]

Preserved and Heritage lines have much better safety records than say a Air Show that always seems to have crashes and deaths all the time.

As you'd expect. Without attempting to drag the topic off course the media will use every trick it can to make you believe that every air show/railtour/*insert activity here* involves a fatality.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

As you'd expect. Without attempting to drag the topic off course the media will use every trick it can to make you believe that every air show/railtour/*insert activity here* involves a fatality.

I would say it is the case with airshows but the very fact I hadn't heard of the tragic incidents mentioned would indicate that isn't as much the case with Heritage or Preserved Railways.

 

[Roylang]

Preserved and Heritage lines have much better safety records than say a Air Show that always seems to have crashes and deaths all the time.

Crashes at airshows are very rare, just because there has been a couple of high-profile instances recently, don't assume they happen all the time.

Most airshow incidents result from acrobatics, a risky past-time.

Roy

 

[E&W Lucas]

Preserved and Heritage lines appear to have an excellent safety record with regards to accidents involving loss of life. Is this actually the case as the only incident I can recall is something on the Ruislip Lido Railway some years back.

This thread really is in very bad taste.

 

[HYPODERMIC]

This thread really is in very bad taste.

Has there been a fatality recently? Otherwise, I see no problem with it.

 

[Jonfun]

This thread really is in very bad taste.

Why? I take it you're a preserved railway volunteer along with myself and several other contributors to this thread; granted it's a topic we'd hope would never happen involving us or our trains, but I don't quite see how discussing it is in "very bad taste" - there's been several quite relevant points made.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

This thread really is in very bad taste.

There are a whole genre of books devoted to railway accidents. Apart from the fact people find the subject fascinating we also learn from the tragic lessons and hopefully avoid any repeat from them. For instance there was a spate of instances where people were falling from the old style doors of trains. In the interim before they were made safe most people became aware that it was not a good idea to lean on them. I was just initially wondering if the whole approach both from a passenger and staff view was one of the reasons that heritage railways were comparitively safe. (as in for instance the fact that most people visiting are not in a rush to get anywhere).
If the volunteers who staff these railways learn anything from tragic events on other lines I would think that it would be a good thing.

 

[E&W Lucas]

None of what has been written above is quite at the level of 'Red For Danger'.

In all of the serious incidents that I can think of, the underlying cause has been a failure to follow long standing, and well tested basic railway practice. Or, tragically, idiots abusing level crossings..There's not exactly any earth shattering revelations.

What's above just comes across as being rather ghoulish.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

In all of the serious incidents that I can think of, the underlying cause has been a failure to follow long standing, and well tested basic railway practice.
What's above just comes across as being rather ghoulish.

There are a number of instances where the rulebook has been rewritten and some of the things you were told never to do were changed as a result of learning from an incident. (though not heritage the Southgate Tunnel fire comes to mind where a guard prevented loss of life by NOT following the established rules).
Call it ghoulish if you wish but people do tend to focus on the unusual such as tragedies rather than 'another day at the office'.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

There's not exactly any earth shattering revelations.

You only have to read the Gwili accident report to realise that while there are not any "earth shattering revalations", there are bits that only apply to heritage railways.

 

[E&W Lucas]

There are a number of instances where the rulebook has been rewritten and some of the things you were told never to do were changed as a result of learning from an incident. (though not heritage the Southgate Tunnel fire comes to mind where a guard prevented loss of life by NOT following the established rules).

The whole Rule Book has evolved like that, but that's mainline railway, not the heritage sector. The environment is simply not challenging enough for that to happen. As I've said, all the accidents that I can think of have been elementary **** ups. Getting onto a moving vehicle, failing to supervise a fireman, etc.

Any incidents that do happen, are investigated by the same bodies as with any other part of the rail industry. Findings are shared immediately across the sector, either by the regulatory bodies, or in some cases by the railways themselves. The last time I did a steam turn, the report into the Kirklees incident this year were being digested, and the likely implications of the French accident were also being considered.

Management withing the heritage sector do communicate with each other, and there are a number of organisations that foster communication/ cooperation.