Salford Crescent

[PR1Berske]

So, er.......I've looked one very map. Every network map. Every Google map. And I have to admit defeat.
Just where are is the re-located Salford Crescent likely to be placed? Because I can't slot it in anywhere =!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So, er.......I've looked one very map. Every network map. Every Google map. And I have to admit defeat.
Just where are is the re-located Salford Crescent likely to be placed? Because I can't slot it in anywhere =!

On the junction towards Manchester as a four-platform station. Once a dead-cert for heppening, dont hold your breath now

 

[Invincibles]

Oddly if I was given free reign to put the new one anywhere it would be on the northernmost of the junctions with one or two bays in the middle.

What would then happen is the platforms would be signalled for bidirectional running and as a rule the trains leaving Manchester would use the middle of the triangle and those going to Manchester would use the outer set of platforms.

In my system I would have

1 - From Wigan
2 - To Wigan
3 - Manchester facing bay (only used in peaks and ideally electrified to accept current Deansgate terminators)
4 - To Bolton
5 - From Bolton.

If there was a bit more money I would add a Manchester facing bay on the outside of platform 5 to permit ready interchange between Manchester Airport trains from Bolton and extensions of Victoria terminators from the East. This would provide a cross platform interchange for Rochdale to Manchester Airport for example and be really useful (I think there is the land there, it currently seems a bit derelict at that north end)

The result would be quite good I think providing a lot of simple cross platform interchanges. The junction would conflict as much as it does at the moment so I do not see that as an issue.

Under this plan the result is exactly the same as the current track plan (although potentially removing one of the two sidings that would be the central bay) but moving the points back towards the crescent itself would make for longer platforms.

 

[WatcherZero]

These are the current plans their working on, they do want to add more platforms but as Matt says looks unlikely at the moment plans to move it to a new site seem to have been dropped as the University/Council had a investment programme planned for the area, first priority is the platform crowding by moving the facilities and furniture off it, more platforms could be reinstated later.

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/3170/item_8_rail_infrastructure_update

 

[lancastrian]

The problem with Salford Crescent Station is that it was built on the cheap, and sadly not quite in the right place. It was inteneded at first that there would have been 4 lines trhough the station with two island platforms, at the current location. Before the station was built, there where in fact 6 lines in this area. Four went through Pendleton Broad Street and on up the Atherton line and tow through Pendleton Old, and up the Bolton line.

After a lot of messing about, insead of 4 lines and 2 island platforms, we ended up with 3 lines and 1 island platform. With the space that was wasted, the single island platform could have been twice as wide as it is, I watched it being built as I travelled between Bolton & Manchester going to work in the 80's. At that time I could not believe how narrow the platform would be. They also provided 2 reversing sidings between the two through lines. They have been rarely used and now I believe they are totally unused.

They should have built the station with platforms on both running lines, to the north of the junction, this would have kept 4 running lines through the location, 2 for Victoria and 2 for Oxford Road, also a bay platform for reversing trains that pass through Victoria from the Calder Valley, giving a good interchange between the various croos Manchster lines. Plus I am sure that they weren't thinking straight when they closed two platforms at Salford Central. While I accept that when the Windosr Link opened, that there were less trains and traffic to Victoria, why did they not realign the ex LNWR tracks through the Station, giving Salford Central a service to Liverpool and North Wales.

 

[driver9000]

They also provided 2 reversing sidings between the two through lines. They have been rarely used and now I believe they are totally unused

Although rarely used, the sidings at Salford Crescent are still available for use, a demic 185 was on one them earlier this year.

 

[yorksrob]

From waiting at the station on various occasions, I always thought that with the relocation of one modernish brick building to the North of the station it would be relatively easy to insert an additional island platform with two extra running lines at the present location. Does anyone know whether the said brick building is owned by the railway?

 

[lancastrian]

From waiting at the station on various occasions, I always thought that with the relocation of one modernish brick building to the North of the station it would be relatively easy to insert an additional island platform with two extra running lines at the present location. Does anyone know whether the said brick building is owned by the railway?

Looking at Salford Crescent, I think the building you are reffering to, is a building belonging to Salford University. I have no idea if they would be willing to allow it to be relocated, so that the Station can be expanded. If you look around the Station, you will see that the site is also hemmed in by various roads that have been construted around the Station, since it was built.

Again looking around the area today, it is even more obvious that to relocate the station to between the two lines to the north of the current site, is the best option, converting one of the current turn back lines into a revearsing bay.

Although rarely used, the sidings at Salford Crescent are still available for use, a demic 185 was on one them earlier this year.

Well driver9000, I am glad that they are still usable, but for most of the time they are practically derilict. I have not seen them in use myself for the last 3/4 years, although to be honest I dont check them every day that I pass that location.

 

[yorksrob]

Again looking around the area today, it is even more obvious that to relocate the station to between the two lines to the north of the current site, is the best option, converting one of the current turn back lines into a revearsing bay.

Yes, that would be possible - and there would be a lot more room for facilities. I suppose the only downside would be that a change from a Pic - Bolton train to a Vic - Wigan via Atherton train for example, would involve a footbridge or a subway, whereas with two island platforms south of the junction these changes could be achieved on the level.

 

[Invincibles]

Roughly like my suggestion then

Is it possible to connect the two lines further north so that everything can be routed towards Wigan with a new link built to the Bolton line across what appears to be derelict industrial land. Admittedly expensive but then there could be a set of fully bi directional platforms and trains could be routed to give the best possible connections.

It would also remove many of the constraints that the site currently has

 

[lancastrian]

Roughly like my suggestion then

Is it possible to connect the two lines further north so that everything can be routed towards Wigan with a new link built to the Bolton line across what appears to be derelict industrial land. Admittedly expensive but then there could be a set of fully bi directional platforms and trains could be routed to give the best possible connections.

It would also remove many of the constraints that the site currently has

Well to me it sound like you are proposing to reopen the old Pendleton Broad Street station, it had two island platforms, both of which were long and wide. then the two lines could continue until the old Brindle Heath Juntion, where the Atherton and Bolton lines would split and the Boilton line rejoining the old line at Agecroft junction. Thus reopening a route that has only been closed about 10 years I believe. This would enable the cross platform interchange and still allow both routes to be served.

Again this is another example of going back to what exsisted before modern "imporvements" had taken place. In fact you can see the Old Pendleton Broad street station from the Boilton line, or you could before all theose trees where allowed to grow. Admittedly this would move the station further away from Salford Univerity, but it is only about a 10 minute walk from Pendleton Broad Street to Salford Univerity.

 

[Invincibles]

Really that was my only worry about the old station, the distance from the university (And the cresecent pub, which is far enough from the current station but a long long way from Pendleton)

However maybe it could be seen as part of a massive regeneration of the area and further the current route could be maintained for freight and fast trains that do not need to stop at "Salford Crescent". The whole thing would be expensive but with the right commercial partners in the development a lot could be achieved.

No doubt we will just see a simple compromise along the lines of the current station.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

My apologies if it was a member on here who said it, but I read somewhere that their [GMPTE, Network Rail etc] plan for the 'new' (I assume they meant resited) Salford Crescent station was to have a better interchange for buses and taxis, a bigger, actual booking office (as opposed to the single window they have at the moment), as well as waiting rooms and all the usual passenger comforts, including toilets. I will try to find the link, or will copy it in later if non-electronic, but, as this sort of thing is what I'm interested in, I will certainly have a look...

 

[WatcherZero]

Network Rail completed GRIPS3 on the station late November, the new design can be seen at the end of this document:

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/3297/item_5-rail_infrastructure_report

 

[yorksrob]

I must admit, it doesn't look wildly different from what there is now. Except maybe a bit more arty

 

[lancastrian]

Well apart from some slight platform extensions, moving the entrance to the Universtiy side of the railway and removing all the platform buildings to the entrance building, it is the same station. It will be very cold in winter if you cannot get out of the wind. As it is in a cutting, it is like a wind tunnel, I would not wish to use it in winter.

It seems to be that yet again they are going for the cheap option and not thinking ahead. Unless some level of imagination above that of my 4 year old grand daughter is used, then we will have slightly longer station, that has less facilities and still not fit for purpose.

I really wonder on how much money has been wasted on consultants, designers and planners to give us what we have now, proberbly enough to have built the station as it should have been years ago.

If that is what they are offering, I will do my best to totally avoid Salford Crescent, except when a train I am using is passing through.

 

[WatcherZero]

I actually ended up using the station yesterday and I can see why the reduction in platform buildings is needed, platform at some points is as wide as old underground stations less than a yard, some trains pass through at speed and the staff seemed to be working really hard to avoid accidents on the heavily overcrowded platform. But what it really needs is longer trains.

Anyway for the full story I was at Picc trying to get home to Wigan at about 4:45, normally I would hop on a tram to Vic and catch the train there but there was a 180 to Preston just leaving and since I hadnt ridden a 180 before I decided to jump on it and ride it to Salford Crescent which would increase my train options. Now the 180 was fairly busy (no seats) but wasnt quite at crush, very spacious interior and well lit but what sounded like a vacum cleaner running back and forth across the ceiling (the deafening air conditioning). Seemed to be fairly comfortable on straights but when it took points everyone on the train was thrown sideways very hard and it tilted horribly.

Anyway I arrived at Salford Crescent about 5:00, looked at board next train in 10 minutes so waited then the train arrived absoloutley rammed about 20 people wanted to board at Salford but inly about 3 managed to squeeze on and the platform staff were pushing people in to get the doors closed Japanese style. Dont worry conductor announced theres another train in two minutes..... which was just as rammed this time no one managed to squeeze on and theres now 30 people waiting for Wigan alone. A via Bolton train now, just as rammed and im thinking Im going to be here a while, Next couple of trains for blackburn, these were just as rammed but luckily for them not many wanting to board. Eventually 50 minutes after I arrived and after 6 trains that were too full for anyone to board I managed to squeeze onto one, there were still people unable to board.

 

[yorksrob]

Agree absolutely.

I always walk across town via Victoria rather than changing at Salford Crescent because for all it's faults, Victoria is still a much nicer place to wait at.