Say NO to Smart Meters

[najaB]

There's still a certain level of arrogance in the development of small, internet-connected devices; "who would bother hacking this?" being the attitude that eventually leading to someone suceeding.

That's true, though it is getting better.

 

[Bletchleyite]

"Smart metering" and "estimated bill" don't go together.

They do if your supplier is incompetent, maybe time to find a new one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s all pretty true. I wonder if anyone would like to hazard a guess as to how many disconnections for debt there were last year in the whole of Great Britain.

Would I be right in guessing it was a very round number?

 

[AlterEgo]

Would I be right in guessing it was a very round number?

Not a round number but also not that far off in the scheme of things.

 

[Busaholic]

I would lay money that you've got a Smart Meter just without the Smart functionality enabled. I'm not convinced that anyone still manufactures/installs 'dumb' meters.

Yes, in theory they do: I 'suffered' a meter failure in April this year, at latest (quite possibly earlier than that, but no meter reading) and, when I contacted EDF, a clued-up person told me I could choose whether to have a non-smart or smart meter, and he would arrange a date for its installation. I elected for an old-style meter, and he then told me no appointments were vacant for the next month for those because the engineers were working flat out to install smart meters: no appointments could be booked beyond the month, so I should ring back in 2-3 weeks. When I did this, once again 'no appointments vacant'. I had already established that I would have no bill to pay until the matter was resolved! Suffice to say, I have not had a new meter installed, and all my reading on the subject confirms I am quite entitled (at this stage) to refuse a smart meter without having to offer an explanation.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I would lay money that you've got a Smart Meter just without the Smart functionality enabled. I'm not convinced that anyone still manufactures/installs 'dumb' meters.

At the moment they still install conventional credit meters. I have recently had a new gas connection and had a conventional diaphragm meter installed, I also had a dual MPAN (3 rate) electric meter swapped out for a standard one. Both were not smart meters as I didn't want to get SMETS1 meters and go 'dumb' when I changed suppliers.

 

[cjmillsnun]

It's not the electric company cutting me off that concerns me, even by incompetence (such as one mistyped account number resulting in incorrect disconnection). It's someone else being able to remotely cut my power that's more concerning, either by accessing the smart meter directly or using a compromised system at the company offices. There's still a certain level of arrogance in the development of small, internet-connected devices; "who would bother hacking this?" being the attitude that eventually leading to someone suceeding. I'll be keeping my dumb meter for as long as I can, someone else can take them up and be on the receiving end of the vulnerabilities first!

1. They are not internet connected devices. They are on a private network, although they do use GPRS technology.
2. When it comes to hacking, they won't bother hacking one meter. They'll either compromise the entire system (in which case if you're on a dumb meter you'll likely go off as well due to the power surge from all the kill switches going off) or go after substations/governors. In which case, you're going off anyway.
3. The devices are incredibly secure. The crypto on them is second to none and they receive regular updates. These aren't like the internet of things devices (cameras, thermostats, etc) that are becoming more common. These are hardened devices.

 

[Denzo]

I was gonna order one today... might not do it now

 

[Bevan Price]

To me, the only advantage of a smart meter would be to send meter readings to the company - I have no interest in hour by hour consumption. I use heating when it is cold, not when some smart meter told me it might be cheaper. Likewise, TV, Radio,, Computer, Fridge, etc., are used when they are needed.

However, when I phone the company, I just get put in a phone "waiting" queue, and I have better things to do that sit listening to musak, etc., on a phone.

 

[NSEFAN]

1. They are not internet connected devices. They are on a private network, although they do use GPRS technology.
2. When it comes to hacking, they won't bother hacking one meter. They'll either compromise the entire system (in which case if you're on a dumb meter you'll likely go off as well due to the power surge from all the kill switches going off) or go after substations/governors. In which case, you're going off anyway.
3. The devices are incredibly secure. The crypto on them is second to none and they receive regular updates. These aren't like the internet of things devices (cameras, thermostats, etc) that are becoming more common. These are hardened devices.

They are connected to the internet. They may be on a VPN of sorts but they still ultimately need public internet infrastructure in order to work, therefore there is still risk.

I don't have much to gain by fitting such a meter, but I do consider there to be (small but still present) risk, so I will still wait until forced to get one. At least by then most of the systematic problems should be ironed out.

 

[ainsworth74]

Suffice to say, I have not had a new meter installed, and all my reading on the subject confirms I am quite entitled (at this stage) to refuse a smart meter without having to offer an explanation.

Yes it's optional or, at least, it is for the time being. I suppose it may not be in the future but I suspect the 'worst' case will only ever be to have a Smart Meter fitted with the 'Smart' functionality disabled. I'm not sure it would be tenable to insist that people have them installed.

Both were not smart meters as I didn't want to get SMETS1 meters and go 'dumb' when I changed suppliers.

I was gonna order one today... might not do it now

Very sensible. I personally think that Smart Meters are a good idea but I'd absolutely hold off until SMETS2 meters are rolled out as otherwise you'll just end up needing another one in a few years!

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Yes this is because, for whatever reason, the Government decided to rush the roll out so meters that were designed using the SMETS1 standard are usually supplier specific. Newer meters which are built to the SMETS2 standard should be inter-operable as they use a central shared network. Why the Government didn't just delay forcing the energy companies to roll out until SMETS2 and the shared network was ready to roll is beyond me but in theory from July 2018 any meter installed should be SMETS2. This does, of course, mean that those that already have a meter will have to have another meter fitted to bring it the SMETS2 standard (unless they get luck and the supplier can just update it remotely which may apply to some designs).

Ahhh it's refreshing to see something that actually makes sense. My work is starting to roll out SMETS2 at the moment via our PayGo smart meters which can mode change (Prepayment to Credit and vice versa at the click of a button depending on how the customer wants to use the meter). Also when it comes to vulnerability, we will never actively go out and disconnect a property. If it's the case that we can't fit a prepayment meter to recover the debt we will leave the credit meter in place. We also have various schemes at work that are open at certain points for customers.

I remember when I was at my previous employer, I received an email from a customer giving 34 reasons as to why they wouldn't get a smart meter. Bearing in mind this was even before SMETS1. It is indeed the case that if a customer has a SMETS1 Compliant meter and they change supplier then they will lose smart functionality as the new supplier is unable to read it remotely. However, Ovo Energy, Toto Energy and Economy Energy are all able to read SMETS1 Utilita Energy Smart Meters.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Yes, in theory they do: I 'suffered' a meter failure in April this year, at latest (quite possibly earlier than that, but no meter reading) and, when I contacted EDF, a clued-up person told me I could choose whether to have a non-smart or smart meter, and he would arrange a date for its installation. I elected for an old-style meter, and he then told me no appointments were vacant for the next month for those because the engineers were working flat out to install smart meters: no appointments could be booked beyond the month, so I should ring back in 2-3 weeks. When I did this, once again 'no appointments vacant'. I had already established that I would have no bill to pay until the matter was resolved! Suffice to say, I have not had a new meter installed, and all my reading on the subject confirms I am quite entitled (at this stage) to refuse a smart meter without having to offer an explanation.

That's actually quite interesting. Can I ask what part of the country your in? Depending on who EDF appoint as the MOP (Meter Operator) for your area, they can actually contact them directly to see what earlier appointments there are rather than just going by their own calendar. Our appointments calendar was showing nothing for a normal meter exchange until the 4th of January 2018, but after I explained to the customer that once it's booked and the metering team receive the appointment we can phone after 24 hours to get it brought forward. I'd definitely question this with EDF and poke them around a bit.

 

[GusB]

I really don't see what all the fuss is about, to be honest. I also work in the industry, and it can be hell when someone disputes their bill but refuses to provide a reading - "oh you came to read the meter 2 months ago, do I really need to do this again?" is a common protest. Most people are fairly capable of reading their own meters, but a few seem to be under the impression that it isn't their responsibility to check it, despite it being written into the terms of their contract. Submitting a regular meter reading is in the interests of most customers as it gives suppliers a more accurate picture of their consumption, and therefore allows the monthly payment to reflect this better (if the customer opts to go on a regular fixed payment scheme), or the quarterly bill to be more accurate. Occasionally, changes in circumstances (someone moving in/out, new heating system, more efficient washing machine etc...) do throw things out of kilter, and the systems used aren't really that responsive. At the moment, if a customer provides me with a reading that appears to be out of tolerance, I have to ask those questions and tell the system manually that there has been an unexpected drop/increase in consumption. Smart meters should, in theory, eliminate this manual intervention. Obviously there will be cases where certain "vulnerable" customers are unable to provide their own readings, and there are mechanisms in place to ensure that they do have regular cyclic reads. Smart meters should ultimately reduce the need for this.

With regard to disconnecting supply, there is a very long and drawn-out process that has to be followed before any customer is disconnected through non-payment. If they have credit meters, a payment plan will be offered to cover both ongoing consumption and pay off any debt balance. Ability to pay will be assessed and, at some point along the line, pre-payment meters will be offered as a solution. It is only when all else fails that a warrant will be sought to enter the property to install these. Depending on the individual circumstances, this still may not be the best plan, and there are various grant schemes available, along with Fuel Direct (when payments are deducted directly from state benefits). If pre-pay is the only option, smart meters will eliminate the process of having to physically go and install a new device as they should be able to switch from credit to pre-pay mode, and vice-versa.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes it's optional or, at least, it is for the time being. I suppose it may not be in the future but I suspect the 'worst' case will only ever be to have a Smart Meter fitted with the 'Smart' functionality disabled. I'm not sure it would be tenable to insist that people have them installed.

It'll probably be more like there will be a meter reading fee applied if you don't have one, as there is a cost of someone attending to look at it once a millennium.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Just like everything else that has been micro-managed by the government in the past few years, the Smart Meter thing is something that looked good on paper, but has been a half-arsed effort where each of the major energy providers has created their own system that isn't cross-compatible with other suppliers, so when Martin Lewis tells you to switch to a cheaper supplier, you find your smart meter stops telling you anything useful, and a strange sweaty man starts appearing at your front door again to read the meter every 3 months. Only now are they finally working on fixing this.

Anyone who tells you that Smart Meters are bad because...

• The government will use it to spy on you.
  
• The wirelress signals will cook your brains and make you sterile.

... is being paranoid. These things are already happening without the use of a smart meter. As for hackers, any unsecured connected device is vulnerable - smart meters are no exception. If you don't pay your bills, of course the supplier could shut you down remotely. This is just saving them the hassle of sending an engineer to come and pull your master fuse.

Railway Smart Ticketing has been exactly the same. Instead of learning from the Dutch and rolling out a nationwide system, we told every TOC to do it their own way, before we eventually confess that we got it wrong and have to do it all over again.