Scared fare evasion TFL

[Fool12]

Hello,
I travelled without return journey for 3 days on London Underground from zone 1 to zone 3. Caught on 3rd day, I initially lied in my mail after receiving the letter but later I told everything there is to know and attached all my documents with the mail.
Now am scared as am a student, what will be the outcome, will there be visa problems if am going to prosecuted, and does it come under first time offence as I paid for all my travels before and sent them my documents. Any chances I will get by with a formal warning?
Please help me, as am scared to death, will my lie make my case worse?
Will I able to apply for other countries?

Any advice please?

Hello,
I travelled without return journey for 3 days on London Underground from zone 1 to zone 3. Caught on 3rd day, I initially lied in my mail after receiving the letter but later I told everything there is to know and attached all my documents with the mail.
Now am scared as am a student, what will be the outcome, will there be visa problems if am going to prosecuted, and does it come under first time offence as I paid for all my travels before and sent them my documents. Any chances I will get by with a formal warning?
Please help me, as am scared to death, will my lie make my case worse?
Will I able to apply for other countries?

Any advice please?

Any help

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Welcome to the forum.

It will be difficult for us to give a good answer here: the laws for the London Underground can be different from those for National Rail, and my understanding is that advice on immigration matters can only be given by immigration advisers and lawyers. But within those limits let's see what we can do.

For the fare dodging issue, I don't think that the news is good: my understanding is that the London Underground do take matters to court rather than offering out of court settlements. But you have nothing to lose by asking if they will consider an out of court settlement: @Hadders gives some excellent advice for people who are in this position (albeit with National Rail services) and this is an example:

You are likely to receive a letter from the train company (or an investigation company acting on their behalf) which will probably take a few weeks to arrive saying that they have received a report, are considering prosecuting you and asking for your version of events. It is important that you engage with and reply to this letter. You might want to include the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fare. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter when it arrives (with personal details removed) and I'm sure members on here will be happy to assist in proof reading your reply.

(source: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...when-no-railcard-was-held.221645/post-5286024)

But if you are prosecuted and convicted, what will this do to your visa? This is something that we aren't qualified to comment on, but I have found some comments on https://www.freemovement.org.uk/gen...s-public-good-character-conduct-associations/. This ties in with what I understand the rules to be. How will these rules be applied to you? Quite simply I don't know, and even if I did know the law means that I can't say. I think that all I can suggest is that if you are convicted, you will need to talk to someone who is allowed to help. I think that your students union would be a good place to start: they may be allowed to give you advice, and if not then they should know someone who can.

(edited to correct a typo)

 

[Fool12]

Thank you for your reply.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello,
I travelled without return journey for 3 days on London Underground from zone 1 to zone 3. Caught on 3rd day, I initially lied in my mail after receiving the letter but later I told everything there is to know and attached all my documents with the mail.
Now am scared as am a student, what will be the outcome, will there be visa problems if am going to prosecuted, and does it come under first time offence as I paid for all my travels before and sent them my documents. Any chances I will get by with a formal warning?
Please help me, as am scared to death, will my lie make my case worse?
Will I able to apply for other countries?

Any advice please?


Any help

If you are an overseas student I would strongly suggest you seek some advice from your college / university students union advice service about this - and they should also be able to advise about the student visa aspects and consequences of this, and that advice should be confidential.

Your college / university may also have a student visa / immigration team to help students and you could ask them too (but with term starting this will be a busy time so you may need to be patient) - you may know of this team as you may have had contact with them ref helping with the issuing of your student Visa perhaps, but I would start with your students union advice service.

The sooner you seek that advice the better I would say.

People on here tho can probably better advise on what will or may happen ref the ticket fraud consequences and how to miminise any penalty you may face.

Good luck with this. You can come to this thread for help with replying to letters etc that you may get from London Underground / Transport for London if you think that will be of help to you.

 

[jumble]

Hello,
I travelled without return journey for 3 days on London Underground from zone 1 to zone 3. Caught on 3rd day, I initially lied in my mail after receiving the letter but later I told everything there is to know and attached all my documents with the mail.
Now am scared as am a student, what will be the outcome, will there be visa problems if am going to prosecuted, and does it come under first time offence as I paid for all my travels before and sent them my documents. Any chances I will get by with a formal warning?
Please help me, as am scared to death, will my lie make my case worse?
Will I able to apply for other countries?

Any advice please?


Any help

My understanding is that TFL are fond pf prosecuting a bylaw offence and are in general are not much minded to settle out of court
This is relatively minor and is not likely to ruin your life

 

[Fool12]

If you are an overseas student I would strongly suggest you seek some advice from your college / university students union advice service about this - and they should also be able to advise about the student visa aspects and consequences of this, and that advice should be confidential.

Your college / university may also have a student visa / immigration team to help students and you could ask them too (but with term starting this will be a busy time so you may need to be patient) - you may know of this team as you may have had contact with them ref helping with the issuing of your student Visa perhaps, but I would start with your students union advice service.

The sooner you seek that advice the better I would say.

People on here tho can probably better advise on what will or may happen ref the ticket fraud consequences and how to miminise any penalty you may face.

Good luck with this. You can come to this thread for help with replying to letters etc that you may get from London Underground / Transport for London if you think that will be of help to you.

Yes, am a overseas student, I will complete my course next semester, am scared about my Job prospects in future, and if I can my visa.

 

[Fool12]

My understanding is that TFL are fond pf prosecuting a bylaw offence and are in general are not much minded to settle out of court
This is relatively minor and is not likely to ruin your life

By which law will they prosecute me? If you have any idea?
TfL byelaws or Regulation of railways?

 

[30907]

By which law will they prosecute me? If you have any idea?
TfL byelaws or Regulation of railways?

My guess is that they will prosecute - or at least threaten to prosecute - under the Byelaws, because legally it is an "open and shut case" (a "slam-dunk" if you prefer): you had no ticket, therefore you are guilty, end of story.
This is a "non-recordable" offence, but I would still advise you to take specialist advice.

 

[Fool12]

My guess is that they will prosecute - or at least threaten to prosecute - under the Byelaws, because legally it is an "open and shut case" (a "slam-dunk" if you prefer): you had no ticket, therefore you are guilty, end of story.
This is a "non-recordable" offence, but I would still advise you to take specialist advice.

I don’t have enough money with me, to take the help of solicitor, I did mistake, I didn’t had any clue it will go this far.
I hope it will not a recordable offence if they prosecute me, like the regulation of railways one.

 

[jumble]

I don’t have enough money with me, to take the help of solicitor, I did mistake, I didn’t had any clue it will go this far.
I hope it will not a recordable offence if they prosecute me, like the regulation of railways one.

I do not think a solicitor's input will be in the slightest bit useful at this stage
I would post back on here when you receive a letter

 

[30907]

I don’t have enough money with me, to take the help of solicitor, I did mistake, I didn’t had any clue it will go this far.

By specialist advice I was referring to the suggestions upthread about your university, students' union etc. in relation to your visa status, not a solicitor.
I agree entirely with jumble that a solicitor is not a priority use at the moment.

 

[Fool12]

Hello all,
I got a mail(notice) from the tfl,
Bye law 17(1), asking me to plead guilty or not.
Will TfL accept for out of court settlement? How to approach them?
If they prosecute how long will this stay on my record? And do I need to disclose it all my life?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hello all,
I got a mail(notice) from the tfl,
Bye law 17(1), asking me to plead guilty or not.
Will TfL accept for out of court settlement? How to approach them?
If they prosecute how long will this stay on my record? And do I need to disclose it all my life?

My understanding is that TfL rarely agree out of court settlements, and as you have now been asked to plead, I think that you don't have time to ask again: if you don't give them an answer to what they have asked, then the case will automatically end up being heard in court.

It's a byelaw that you are being prosecuted under, so for most purposes the conviction will not be recorded, and you will not need to disclose it. But I don't know if that is the case for when your visa is considered.

So as I said above, you really need to talk to someone. If you have a Students Union that would be a good place to start. Otherwise, try Citizens Advice (https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/): they probably won't be able to help with the prosecution, but should be able to help with your visa and so on.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello all,
I got a mail(notice) from the tfl,
Bye law 17(1), asking me to plead guilty or not.
Will TfL accept for out of court settlement? How to approach them?
If they prosecute how long will this stay on my record? And do I need to disclose it all my life?

The bylaw offence will be spent immediately, but you will likely need to declare it when renewing your visa or getting indefinite leave to remain. You should speak to your student Union about this.

If you are on a visa you are a conditional guest in the United Kingdom and you have a special responsibility, above those of citizens, to obey the law and not to cause problems. You may wish to speak to an immigration service, or seek out other areas of the internet with more expertise about visas.

 

[Desperate]

Is there anyway to speak to the TFL on the phone?
Please seek advice from anywhere you can as many people mentioned above - Immigration team/Student Unions from the Uni, there may be the Law Clinic in your uni where can freely support you from the legal perspective (Bye law) and Citizens Advice also.
Never give up to settle this out of the court.

 

[Fool12]

Thanks @AlterEgo @Fawkescat @Desperate
Thanks for your help.
I have spoken with few immigration solicitors they said it won’t be a problem without even asking what section am I being charged under.
I don’t feel like trusting them.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Thanks @AlterEgo @Fawkescat @Desperate
Thanks for your help.
I have spoken with few immigration solicitors they said it won’t be a problem without even asking what section am I being charged under.
I don’t feel like trusting them.

We can't give advice on immigration matters, but assuming that these were separate solicitors (that is, they don't all work for the same firm) then if they're all telling you not to worry, I think you have your answer. You're in the same position as anyone else in the UK.

That being the case, the advice we would give to anyone who had not paid their TfL fare for a few days, been caught, and charged with a byelaw offence would be to plead guilty by post, pay the fine and (apart from not doing it again) forget about it. That is the advice I now give you.

 

[hkstudent]

For OP's benefit, I would suggest OP to visit immigrationboard forum for reference. There are many cases regarding to by-law or even criminal cases and visa or ILR applications.

Comparatively, UK has slightly more relaxed approach to petty crimes and visa application, compare to the US or other major immigrants countries.

I do agree what other posters have said, seek advice from student union or specialists as soon as possible, before the deadline of reponse of the plea.