Scotland - revised National Transport Strategy (NTS2) and STPR 2

[JohnR]

I suppose the question many would ask, is why stay with a system where you don't have control of how much you spend or of any economic policies and where you are running a large deficit?

There is the small issue of things like the funding of HS2 etc into this and attribution of income and expenditure plus debt. Where does the debt of Network Rail sit within all this for example.

At least our place in the EU is certain.

If you read the notes to the GERS report, you will see all the things that are and are not included. On the question of HS2, for instance, only 2% of the HS expenditure is allocated (and of course, most of the expenditure hasnt happened yet!) rather than the population share of 8.9%. Other projects frequently assumed to have costs "allocated" to Scotland within GERS, such as the Thames Water Sewage pipe and Crossrail do not have any costs "allocated" to Scotland. GERS doesnt look at debt, only income and expenditure, so NRs debt isnt an issue.

 

[clc]

The downside of a new terminus in the St Enoch/Argyle St area is that it would to some extent have the same problem as the Crossrail proposal in that it would take commuters further away from where most of them want to go ie. the CBD in western part of the city centre. Central Station is by far the better option for serving that area. Also, most of the future jobs growth is going to happen there with the IFSD spreading westwards as the gap sites gradually fill up.

These factors add support to the case for the cross city tunnel serving Central.

 

[najaB]

The downside of a new terminus in the St Enoch/Argyle St area is that it would to some extent have the same problem as the Crossrail proposal in that it would take commuters further away from where most of them want to go...

You're talking what, less than 500m? If it's that much of a problem then add an underground moving walkway to Central.

 

[Highland37]

If you read the notes to the GERS report, you will see all the things that are and are not included. On the question of HS2, for instance, only 2% of the HS expenditure is allocated (and of course, most of the expenditure hasnt happened yet!) rather than the population share of 8.9%. Other projects frequently assumed to have costs "allocated" to Scotland within GERS, such as the Thames Water Sewage pipe and Crossrail do not have any costs "allocated" to Scotland. GERS doesnt look at debt, only income and expenditure, so NRs debt isnt an issue.

It's not an issue in terms of GERS and that's the point. It's an issue in the real world where the debt is very real and has to be serviced in some way. The point I am making, is that GERS is far, not close, to the real situation.

 

[JohnR]

It's not an issue in terms of GERS and that's the point. It's an issue in the real world where the debt is very real and has to be serviced in some way. The point I am making, is that GERS is far, not close, to the real situation.

The Scottish Government and the statisticians in Edinburgh who compile the report reckon its as close as we can get. Many of the alleged problems with it are actually myths - and dealt with in the notes. Next you'll be talking about Whisky export duty!

 

[Highland37]

No I am talking about real debt. Not an online argument.

I live in Inverness. The infrastructure is backwards and falling to pieces. Hardly anyone uses the north or Kyle lines as a method of day to day travel as it's slow, the 158s are knackered, not very reliable at times especially in the winter and overall a very poor second to the car. It is cheap though with a railcard.

Through my job, I organise lots of group travel. We only use the train if necessary due to the issues above. The ferries have seen huge investment which has paid dividends in the service.

 

[clc]

I wonder if a new Perth-Inverkeithing line will make it into the STPR this time:

http://intercityexpress.transformscotland.org.uk/what-we-want/edinburgh-perth-direct/

 

[backontrack]

I wonder if a new Perth-Inverkeithing line will make it into the STPR this time:

http://intercityexpress.transformscotland.org.uk/what-we-want/edinburgh-perth-direct/

I hope so! It's very important that this goes ahead.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The Kyle, North and WHL are out of date sidings relative to railways in the continent of Europe.

So this makes them irrelevant, does it?

These lines are just as important as any others.

 

[Harbornite]

The Kyle, North and WHL are out of date sidings relative to railways in the continent of Europe.

Not all continental railways are double track, electrified, 140mph mainlines, they also have their branch lines. The aforementioned lines in Scotland were retained and should be retained because they provide a social service and act as a lifeline to isolated and othewise cut-off communities.

 

[backontrack]

Not all continental railways are double track, electrified, 140mph mainlines, they also have their branch lines. The aforementioned lines in Scotland were retained and should be retained because they provide a social service and act as a lifeline to isolated and othewise cut-off communities.

Up with this! Very well said, though I fear some of these lines are losing their traffic to roads due to cancellations and delays.

 

[Harbornite]

Up with this! Very well said, though I fear some of these lines are losing their traffic to roads due to cancellations and delays.

Maybe, though I don't think the authorities would get a way with closing them. These lines don't make a profit as it is so things would have to become dire before closure was even considered.