Scotland's 'polar express'

[Adlington]

BBC reports:

Commuters who travel between Oban and Glasgow say conditions in the carriages are so cold they have to wear extra layers for the journey. Now locals campaigning for better facilities are comparing it to the train bound for the North Pole in the 2004 Tom Hanks movie The Polar Express.

ScotRail said it was looking into options to provide a better service. The rail firm, which is wholly owned by the Scottish government, said the trains which operate on the route - the West Highland Line - are warmed by excess heat provided by the engine. But in particularly cold spells they can take time to heat up, a spokesperson added.

In good old days good old steam trains would be preheated before departing. May be this is too old-fashioned nowadays?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Good old one five six s, sweltering and freezing at the wrong times. I can testify that this is a known problem on this route as have experienced it first hand more than once, most recently in January of last year when doing a FTW GLQ run on a cold damp Saturday morning with forum legend @Kite159 and his mum, by the time the train was negotiating helensburgh we had already made plans for early abandonment at Dunbarton central and screw the consequences that may have insued from a fares and ticketing point of view. The 334 that collected us after a 10-minute fester at dunbarton's slightly spartan facilities was like a baker's oven in comparison, fabulous

 

[PupCuff]

We were up that neck of the woods recently and a few locals had commented on it. We didn't have an issue on the train there, it was fine, but the one coming back was freezing, significantly colder than any other 156 I've been on (and I've been on a fair few in my time!)

 

[ainsworth74]

Is the solution not just switching the engines on a bit earlier before departure? The 156s around here, once they're up to temperature, are perfectly warm. Occasionally too warm with all your winter layers on!

 

[scotraildriver]

The ScotRail 156s were fitted with a new, cleaner auxiliary heater when they were refurbished a few years ago and the heating has been rubbish ever since. Unfortunately since the Premier Inn opened right next to Oban station there were lots of complaints about engines running at 5am so they no longer start them early.

 

[PyrahnaRanger]

It depends @ainsworth74 where “around here” is I guess! Whitehaven/Workington/Carlisle are always noticeably colder than Preston/Manchester, and going north to Glasgow is usually colder again.

The 156s straight out of the carriage sidings at Workington are a bit Baltic, even in good weather, but even later on in the day they can be cold and a bit draughty, unless it’s summer in which case the heating works a bit too well normally!

Interestingly, long-term Northern 156s are usually a bit warmer than the recent ex-ScotRail ones for some reason!

 

[Dai Corner]

Is the solution not just switching the engines on a bit earlier before departure? The 156s around here, once they're up to temperature, are perfectly warm. Occasionally too warm with all your winter layers on!

Looking at RTT, the stock forming the train in the article appears to arrive from Eastfield at 0609 and do a return trip to Anniesland before leaving for Oban and Mallaig at 0821 so has a good two hours to warm up.

 

[al78]

This is in contrast to the trains I use traveling to London which I find too warm and have had to strip down to a T-shirt to feel comfortable, in January!

 

[Blindtraveler]

The ScotRail 156s were fitted with a new, cleaner auxiliary heater when they were refurbished a few years ago and the heating has been rubbish ever since. Unfortunately since the Premier Inn opened right next to Oban station there were lots of complaints about engines running at 5am so they no longer start them early.

Do you know if it will be possible to go back to the old system or has some vital piece of kit being removed never to return due to cost or availability of parts? This for me is yet another example of some eco warrior doing something to suit their agenda and to hell with everyone who actually has to use it

 

[scotraildriver]

The old Eberspacher system was obsolete and pumped out huge clouds of exhaust, often way more than the engines. So no, can't go back.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Isn't the straightforward answer here to use a propane or electric space heater to pre-heat the carriages? That's assuming that there are mains sockets on the sidings or platforms for a supply.

I appreciate that running a 3kW electric fan heater for 30 minutes in a 125 cubic metre space with the cable dangling through an open window isn't going to make a considerable difference, but it would certainly take the edge off it!

Just remember to disconnect them before moving.

 

[ainsworth74]

It depends @ainsworth74 where “around here” is I guess! Whitehaven/Workington/Carlisle are always noticeably colder than Preston/Manchester, and going north to Glasgow is usually colder again.

Teesside! Not exactly the frozen wastes of the Scottish highlands but hardly the tropics either

Interestingly, long-term Northern 156s are usually a bit warmer than the recent ex-ScotRail ones for some reason!

I suspect that, is related to this:

The ScotRail 156s were fitted with a new, cleaner auxiliary heater when they were refurbished a few years ago and the heating has been rubbish ever since.

Which is clearly an excellent innovation for trains that operate in Scotland...

Unfortunately since the Premier Inn opened right next to Oban station there were lots of complaints about engines running at 5am so they no longer start them early.

Ah people building next to an operating railway becoming unhappy that the railway operates...

Looking at RTT, the stock forming the train in the article appears to arrive from Eastfield at 0609 and do a return trip to Anniesland before leaving for Oban and Mallaig at 0821 so has a good two hours to warm up.

Then the heaters must be poor! The train I get on a morning (nearly always 156 operated) is nice and cosy by the time it reaches a me a few hours after leaving the depot.

 

[John Bishop]

It’s embarrassing! In the 21st century we can’t even have a warm train for passengers to sit in. It’s hardly rocket science is it!? Gawd only knows what the tourists must think.

 

[AHBD]

The ScotRail 156s were fitted with a new, cleaner auxiliary heater when they were refurbished a few years ago and the heating has been rubbish ever since. Unfortunately since the Premier Inn opened right next to Oban station there were lots of complaints about engines running at 5am so they no longer start them early.

Isn't sound insulation one of the selling points of a Modern Premier Inn? Is an idling 156 any louder than a city centre location?

 

[nickswift99]

Isn't sound insulation one of the selling points of a Modern Premier Inn? Is an idling 156 any louder than a city centre location?

The Sleep Guarantee might be an issue though. All those unhappy customers demanding a refund.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It’s embarrassing! In the 21st century we can’t even to have a warm train for passengers to sit in. It’s hardly rocket science is it!? Gawd only knows what the tourists must think.

The West Highland services are another classic example of the Scottish government somewhat strange tourism policy as it is, they want plenty of them in order to fund whatever pie in the sky spending plan that usually involves beating the English with a very big stick but yet they subject them to some absolute horrors in the world of transport, ferries that don't sail and now trains that refrigerate them nicely prior to their arrival at various ports from which the ferries aren't leaving from

And that's before I've gone and had yet another fringe about the awful seats and inadequate toilet provision. However this is off topic for this thread


Perhaps scottrail should go and see the depot staff at Northern, particularly the ones that look after the one five zero fleet, every time I climb aboard one of those it's always roasty toasty

 

[DanBlanchflowe]

Isn't the straightforward answer here to use a propane or electric space heater to pre-heat the carriages? That's assuming that there are mains sockets on the sidings or platforms for a supply.

I appreciate that running a 3kW electric fan heater for 30 minutes in a 125 cubic metre space with the cable dangling through an open window isn't going to make a considerable difference, but it would certainly take the edge off it!

Just remember to disconnect them before moving.

An excellent idea.
Why is it not already done?

 

[12LDA28C]

An excellent idea.
Why is it not already done?

Maybe because it would have to be risk assessed and written into a procedure somewhere so is not as straightforward as it seems.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Running them on the Victoria line should cure any cold issues. May be some gauging issues…

 

[chuff chuff]

It’s embarrassing! In the 21st century we can’t even have a warm train for passengers to sit in. It’s hardly rocket science is it!? Gawd only knows what the tourists must think.

Add 334 and 158 to the list,honestly think they don't care.....

 

[Blindtraveler]

334 have not usually in my experience being cold but the sentiment that perhaps they really don't care is certainly shared

 

[chuff chuff]

334 have not usually in my experience being cold but the sentiment that perhaps they really don't care is certainly shared

Comes up a lot on yammer.

 

[kkong]

BBC reports:

Transport Scotland said heating issues had been reported to ScotRail on the 08:21 Glasgow to Oban services on two occasions during random on-board testing.

The on-board heating was found to be below the ambient temperature on one occasion.

Er... what?

 

[AHBD]

The Sleep Guarantee might be an issue though. All those unhappy customers demanding a refund.

Can,t they just fit more insulation? Why would they not have problems with claims in busy city hotels but do in Oban? Isnt quadruple glazing the norm etc.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Just 1? Someone is clearly in full-on defensive mode here as it's significantly more than

 

[AHBD]

Just 1? Someone is clearly in full-on defensive mode here as it's significantly more than

Your reply (to whom?) is garbled.

 

[snookertam]

Amazed that the engine wouldn’t be started up because of the adjacent Premier Inn. That’s bonkers. What would happen if ScotRail just said tough? The engines need started for operational reasons and this is a working railway.

People in the article are saying it is for the full 3 hour journey, they may be exaggerating, but if so it suggests the problem is worse than just when the engines are started up.

I wonder if Norwegian railway operators would get caught out in this way.

 

[scotraildriver]

Amazed that the engine wouldn’t be started up because of the adjacent Premier Inn. That’s bonkers. What would happen if ScotRail just said tough? The engines need started for operational reasons and this is a working railway.

People in the article are saying it is for the full 3 hour journey, they may be exaggerating, but if so it suggests the problem is worse than just when the engines are started up.

I wonder if Norwegian railway operators would get caught out in this way.

There were also complaints from residents of the flats as well. There are similar issues at Mallaig. Not sure from who or where but ScotRail agreed not to run the engines prior to the early morning departure.

 

[BlueLeanie]

Transport Scotland said heating issues had been reported to ScotRail on the 08:21 Glasgow to Oban services on two occasions during random on-board testing.

The on-board heating was found to be below the ambient temperature on one occasion.

Er... what?

Well, I'm reading that as if the temperature of the air coming out of the heater was lower than the temperature outside. So essentially the "heater" was in fact chilling the air.

 

[nickswift99]

Well, I'm reading that as if the temperature of the air coming out of the heater was lower than the temperature outside. So essentially the "heater" was in fact chilling the air.

Ah, so the reverse of the air cooling that was originally installed on the 165s which never worked and used to provide excessive hot air into the carriages?