Scotrail, Abellio and April

[InOban]

Not really for this thread, but I saw a picture of an HST set going to Wabtec, presumably for warranty attention. Which one? And have the set(s) previously there been returned?

 

[Carntyne]

Plus everyone with a heavy rail service into Glasgow Central - That's quite a lot of people !

Not a great use of valuable paths between Central and Paisley.

Which Ayrshire or Inverclyde services will be cut to fit those empty trains to and from the airport?

 

[PG]

Aberdeen Tories have promised a study into a rail link to the P&J Live and the Airport if they win the council election. How exactly that would work, I have no idea.

I suspect they've no idea either and the study, most likely conducted by some consultancy firm with links to the tories, will conclude its a non starter

I haven't taken a bus or tram to the airports in years as a result of this, I usually get a cheaper ticket to the Park and Ride at Ingliston and simply walk to the terminal.

Its been a good few years since I flew from Edinburgh but that was exactly what I did, though it did seem like walking in from Ingliston was positively discouraged!

 

[Christmas]

Not a great use of valuable paths between Central and Paisley.

Which Ayrshire or Inverclyde services will be cut to fit those empty trains to and from the airport?

An additional station would only be one extra stop on the Gourock and Wemyss Bay services, benefitting passengers from both directions. No dedicated Airport trains would be necessary.

ScotRail have supposedly been told that they are subject to the public sector pay limitations, meaning drivers are only entitled to a rise of £500. Clearly other public sector employees will be pretty peeved not only at the 2.2% offer but even more so if ASLEF are successful at securing a better deal.

One thing that puzzles me about ScotRail is their eXpress branding applied to every single 385. What's the point of this? I get it if it's only on the 4 car E&G sets but the 3 cars are working services that are certainly not expresses. Meaningless.

 

[PG]

One thing that puzzles me about ScotRail is their eXpress branding applied to every single 385. What's the point of this? I get it if it's only on the 4 car E&G sets but the 3 cars are working services that are certainly not expresses. Meaningless.

Maybe copied (sort of) from the bus industry... the X prefix originally did mean a limited stop bus going directly to the destination; however their popularity led to loads of ordinary 'round the houses' buses gaining an X prefix in an attempt to increase their appeal. A classic case of diluting the brand to its overall detriment which it appears Scotrail have copied and as you say have rendered it meaningless!

 

[Falcon1200]

Not a great use of valuable paths between Central and Paisley.

Which Ayrshire or Inverclyde services will be cut to fit those empty trains to and from the airport?

Why would any paths need to be cut ? The whole point of providing the extra line between Shields Jc and Paisley, and the two additional platforms at Central, was to accommodate the Airport services ! It may be that Scotrail made some use of the improved infrastructure to run additional trains to Ayr and Gourock...... but since Covid, not any more.

Edited to add;
Even with the maximum service level between Glasgow and Paisley of 6 Ayrshire and 4 Inverclyde trains, that's only 10 per hour, ie one every 6 minutes, with barely any freight, so running more trains is not impossible.

 

[Wynd]

Extremely difficult to justify a rail link to TECA when there is a more pressing, and justifiable, need to get Peterhead back online.

As for strike action, not a great idea given where the railways have been for the last couple years and how fragile it now is with changed travel patterns.

 

[Deltic1961]

Extremely difficult to justify a rail link to TECA when there is a more pressing, and justifiable, need to get Peterhead back online.

The cost of modifying the tunnels at Wolmanhill will kill that idea stone dead. Should have been done as part of the A2I but was dodged at the time due to cost.

Regarding TECA, the place was built with not nearly enough parking and there was utter chaos there last week. But ACC of course want to "encourage" people to walk or cycle to a venue in the middle of nowhere at night to go to a function or concert. Unbelievable.

 

[Wynd]

The cost of modifying the tunnels at Wolmanhill will kill that idea stone dead. Should have been done as part of the A2I but was dodged at the time due to cost.

Regarding TECA, the place was built with not nearly enough parking and there was utter chaos there last week. But ACC of course want to "encourage" people to walk or cycle to a venue in the middle of nowhere at night to go to a function or concert. Unbelievable.

There is a body of work ongoing on the tunnels as I understand it. Electrification is coming. As for idea, its an ongoing campaign engaging with the public, business and ministers.

TECA having design flaws is not an argument against connecting Scotland's furthers largest town, that is not on the rail network, to the national rail network.

 

[sannox]

An additional station would only be one extra stop on the Gourock and Wemyss Bay services, benefitting passengers from both directions. No dedicated Airport trains would be necessary.

Not sure of the cost benefit of that. From the centre of the terminal to the railway, as the crow flies, it's 1.5km. It's 1.9km to Paisley Gilmour Street. Far easier for a Luton Airport like shuttle bus along Love Street to Gilmour Street which has far more services.

 

[clc]

The councils (Renfrewshire and Glasgow) had earmarked £150 million of City Deal funding to build a people mover between the airport and Gilmour Street. However, this plan has been superseded by ‘Clyde Metro‘ which involves building not one but two rail links to serve the airport. The main link would be a ‘heavy metro’ line from the city centre using a combination of the Argyle Line (converted to metro) and new track. The second link would be a ‘light metro’ line which wouldn’t serve the city centre but would run between the southwest and northwest of the city. Here’s a high level map of Clyde Metro:

 

[Davester50]

Regarding TECA, the place was built with not nearly enough parking and there was utter chaos there last week. But ACC of course want to "encourage" people to walk or cycle to a venue in the middle of nowhere at night to go to a function or concert. Unbelievable.

It's more than just ACC that are obsessed with Active Travel when it's really not suitable for everyone or the circumstances, sadly.
It's very ableist.

 

[lachlan]

It's more than just ACC that are obsessed with Active Travel when it's really not suitable for everyone or the circumstances, sadly.
It's very ableist.

That's a rather simplistic view, as not all disabled people are drivers. Some disabled people (like myself) can't drive, but could possibly cycle if there were safe cycle routes and fewer cars about. The best thing we can do for disabled people is improve public and active transport provision and have as many people as possible use it, leaving the road space for those who have no choice but to drive.

Also, this is the same ACC that are planning the Berryden Corridor, College Street capacity increase, and are currently building the Haudigan bypass. They seem more obsessed with car users to me.

 

[Wynd]

That's a rather simplistic view, as not all disabled people are drivers. Some disabled people (like myself) can't drive, but could possibly cycle if there were safe cycle routes and fewer cars about. The best thing we can do for disabled people is improve public and active transport provision and have as many people as possible use it, leaving the road space for those who have no choice but to drive.

Also, this is the same ACC that are planning the Berryden Corridor, College Street capacity increase, and are currently building the Haudigan bypass. They seem more obsessed with car users to me.

Quite. Aberdeen is prime to be an active travel city. It could be a cycling mecca, but there remains a huge amount of work to do in infrastructure and attitudes to making that so.

The Car is still very much the favored mode in Aberdeen at present.

 

[Davester50]

That's a rather simplistic view, as not all disabled people are drivers. Some disabled people (like myself) can't drive, but could possibly cycle if there were safe cycle routes and fewer cars about. The best thing we can do for disabled people is improve public and active transport provision and have as many people as possible use it, leaving the road space for those who have no choice but to drive.

Far from simplistic. And not being able isn't the same as Disabled.
My parents who do drive, but don't qualify for any disability payments, passes, or similar just can't do much active travel. There is no way those octogenarians are cycling anywhere, and the bus just isn't an option for getting the messages in.

If you're not able, but still not Disabled, Active Travel is very much an Ableist policy.

 

[lachlan]

Far from simplistic. And not being able isn't the same as Disabled.
My parents who do drive, but don't qualify for any disability payments, passes, or similar just can't do much active travel. There is no way those octogenarians are cycling anywhere, and the bus just isn't an option for getting the messages in.

If you're not able, but still not Disabled, Active Travel is very much an Ableist policy.

Only 18% of the population are over 65, and the percentage of people over 65 who can't cycle or use public transport is smaller still. So your parents would certainly fit under "leaving the road space for those who have no choice but to drive". Improve active travel and improving frequencies of buses would mean less traffic for your parents to be caught up in when doing their shop. Active travel is anything but ableist, it helps many disabled people who can't or struggle to drive.

 

[Davester50]

You're opinion differs from mine (once again).
Nothing more to be said from this drifting OT thread.

 

[Deltic1961]

Aberdeen is prime to be an active travel city. It could be a cycling mecca

Apart from all the hills, and the weather, and it's dark at 3pm in the winter .........

 

[lachlan]

Apart from all the hills, and the weather, and it's dark at 3pm in the winter .........

Given I already walk up the hills, in the dark, and in bad weather, none of these would stop me cycling. Drivers and lack of safe infrastructure does. Jackets, e-bikes, and bicycle lights help too...

 

[Wynd]

Apart from all the hills, and the weather, and it's dark at 3pm in the winter .........

As though no other Norther European cities have such "obstacles" and have made a good go of active travel. haha oh dear, you have to love the mindset here. I wouldn't be anywhere else

It is worth noting that such behavioral shifts would lead to more use of Scotrail Trains. The choice of car ownership, there is no choice in Aberdeenshire at present, would increase uptake of Rail.

It is for this reason, and to capture the trend, that such a strike would be ill judged. Missing these trends, and ingraining car ownership further, is a path Scotrail and the SG should do all they can to avoid.

 

[lachlan]

As though no other Norther European cities have such "obstacles" and have made a good go of active travel. haha oh dear, you have to love the mindset here. I wouldn't be anywhere else

It is worth noting that such behavioral shifts would lead to more use of Scotrail Trains. The choice of car ownership, there is no choice in Aberdeenshire at present, would increase uptake of Rail.

It is for this reason, and to capture the trend, that would make a strike ill judged.

It's the same mindset displayed with the market redevelopment and its outdoor seating. "Nobody will sit outside! The weather is too bad in Aberdeen. What about the winter?" forgetting a) jackets and blankets exist b) there are plenty of warm days in Aberdeen.

 

[Wynd]

It's the same mindset displayed with the market redevelopment and its outdoor seating. "Nobody will sit outside! The weather is too bad in Aberdeen. What about the winter?" forgetting a) jackets and blankets exist b) there are plenty of warm days in Aberdeen.

oh haha dont, before we know it we will have our own thread on Aberdeens attitudes and outlooks.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Drifting back to topic a little, yet again I've come home from being away for several days to hear a number of complaints from friends and neighbours about capacity and overcrowding issues on roots that either previously had longer trains or higher frequencies on ScotRail. As someone said earlier, until we can shift to the belief in transport Scotland that everyone is staying at home and doing nothing then we will not get these frequencies back but the demand is clearly absolutely 100-percent there

The more concerning thought though is that perhaps they are simply playing dumb here and hoping that if people get annoyed enough with all of these issues and many others that they will simply stop using the train justifying further cuts

 

[Wynd]

The more concerning thought though is that perhaps they are simply playing dumb here and hoping that if people get annoyed enough with all of these issues and many others that they will simply stop using the train justifying further cuts

Given the SG investment, and even UKG investment in Rail, at this time its difficult to find evidence to support the theory that anyone wants to see cuts to the rail network.

There are absolutely ongoing discussions around cost, subsidy, public patronage etc, but I dont think we are quite at the stage where cuts are being actively promoted or pursued.

 

[92002]

Given the SG investment, and even UKG investment in Rail, at this time its difficult to find evidence to support the theory that anyone wants to see cuts to the rail network.

There are absolutely ongoing discussions around cost, subsidy, public patronage etc, but I dont think we are quite at the stage where cuts are being actively promoted or pursued.

Was at Perth a couple of weeks ago on a Saturday. From Glasgow mostly all the Aberdeen trains were 170s. So needless to say there was not a lot of room and any reservations. Coming back to Glasgow it was a 158. Needless to say most of the passengers at Stirling could not get on the train. There seemed to be plenty of HSTs at Cadder. So whether it was a training issue or just weekend madness it's not going to encourage passengers back to trains.

 

[route101]

Was at Perth a couple of weeks ago on a Saturday. From Glasgow mostly all the Aberdeen trains were 170s. So needless to say there was not a lot of room and any reservations. Coming back to Glasgow it was a 158. Needless to say most of the passengers at Stirling could not get on the train. There seemed to be plenty of HSTs at Cadder. So whether it was a training issue or just weekend madness it's not going to encourage passengers back to trains.

Are seat reservations back on long distance services?

 

[92002]

Are seat reservations back on long distance services?

They should be but based on HST's.

 

[CEN60]

Are seat reservations back on long distance services?

Yes - travelled from Inv this morning at around 10.46 on the Edinburgh Train - note a 170 which was packed, yet there was an HST sitting to go to Aberdeen which would have left almost empty!!! Come on ScotRail - the HST promise has been a complete failure!

 

[Davester50]

At least the trolley is back (on some services) at least.
Nice to get a coffee and snack.
Does seem a waste of the actual micro-buffet space, but baby-steps I suppose.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Well surprise surprise. Never saw this coming with a nationalised railway

Train drivers could strike for first time in 20 years amid cost-of-living fears

Train drivers could strike for the first time in 20 years after talks between a rail union and transport bosses failed to reach an agreement over pay.

www.originalfm.com

Text from article:

Train drivers could strike for the first time in 20 years after talks between a rail union and transport bosses failed to reach an agreement over pay.

Aslef met with ScotRail on Monday to discuss a pay increase amid rising inflation and the cost-of-living crisis.

While other sections of ScotRail staff have gone on strike in recent years, the move would be a first in two decades for drivers.

It is understood ScotRail has offered drivers a 2.2% increase, which Aslef says is a “derisory offer”.

Kevin Lindsay, industrial organiser for Aslef, said: “Aslef members who have kept the country moving throughout the pandemic have been presented with a derisory pay offer from ScotRail management which takes no account of the cost-of-living crisis workers face.

“Scotland’s train drivers did not make the decision to consider industrial action lightly – indeed we have not had a single pay dispute with Scotland’s railway operators for 21 years. Yet, just one month into the Scottish Government’s stewardship of ScotRail, we are being left with no option but to consider action in response.

“ScotRail and the Scottish Government must recognise that these key workers deserve a decent pay rise, they should return to the negotiating table with a much fairer deal that recognises the vital work our members do.”

That will be same ASLEF thats been calling for national ownership of operators and calling out the profits made by the private companies running the services. Wasn't so bad after all.

With Shapps laying it on thick at the Transport Committee last week over how much the industry has received in taxpayers support and protected every job my intuition is they expect the staff to respond in kind with pay restraint. The fact that Scotrail was reported as well behind the national recovery in passenger numbers means the bottom line is under pressure hence the timetable being cut back so minimal cash in the kitty for a pay rise.