ScotRail announces new direct Edinburgh-Ayr service

[FTS 2012-2013]

ScotRail announces new direct Edinburgh-Ayr service

ScotRail has announced plans to launch a new direct "coast-to-coast" train service between Ayr and Edinburgh.

The move involves extending current services that operate between Edinburgh and Glasgow Central via Carstairs.

The service will be part of ScotRail's new summer timetable, which will see additional services to and from Ayr.

From 19 May, four services every hour will connect Glasgow Central to Ayr from Monday to Friday - up from the current three.

The fourth train currently stops at Irvine but will now continue on to Ayr.

Steve Montgomery, managing director of ScotRail, said: "This new Edinburgh-Ayr service is likely to appeal to leisure passengers, particularly during the summer months, where the train journey is part and parcel of the day out."

Transport Minister Keith Brown said the new coast-to-coast service would result in "great benefits" for the tourism industry both in the east and the west of the country.

He added: "ScotRail passenger numbers, in line with Scottish government investment in our railways, have now reached record highs and these additional services will offer even more people extra opportunities to enjoy travelling by train."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26737440

 

[YorkshireBear]

Good idea. Im just glad they have the spare stock to facilitate it.

 

[feline1]

Yes but could they not run it to Stranraer? /ducks/

Then we could have a Limerick to Edinburgh rain service

 

[FTS 2012-2013]

Yes but could they not run it to Stranraer? /ducks/

Then we could have a Limerick to Edinburgh rain service

then there would be the problem of finding a spare dmu

 

[feline1]

Pardon my ignorance, what's a dmu?

 

[FTS 2012-2013]

Pardon my ignorance, what's a dmu?

diesel multiple-unit :roll:

 

[feline1]

:roll:

OK, scorn my ignorance then

 

[Manchester77]

diesel multiple-unit :roll:

We all have to learn I don't see why it needed that attitude :roll:

Good news about the new services however the cynic inside of me is saying that this is so that should Scotland go independent they won't lose any trains to England / Wales.

Where's the stock coming from for this, the bbc article says it starts from the May timetable change so it can't be due to EGIP can it?

 

[FTS 2012-2013]

We all have to learn I don't see why it needed that attitude :roll:

Good news about the new services however the cynic inside of me is saying that this is so that should Scotland go independent they won't lose any trains to England / Wales.

Where's the stock coming from for this, the bbc article says it starts from the May timetable change so it can't be due to EGIP can it?

what attitude ? there wasn't any intended

 

[feline1]

You used a rolling eyes emoticon.
Does this mean the line south west of Ayr isn't electrified?

 

[NotATrainspott]

The Glasgow-Ayr and Glasgow-Edinburgh via Carstairs services are both Class 380 operated and all this news really is that they are diagramming the two routes together with a reversal at Glasgow Central. Since there were additional EMUs ordered for the aborted GARL project, on top of the existing spare EMU capacity available, there has been plenty of capacity available for all these new operations. Paisley Canal, Springburn-Cumbernauld, Motherwell-Cumbernauld and Central-Whifflet have been or will be transitioning to EMU operation without any more EMUs since the 380s. The next big order of EMUs is the EGIP order to replace the 158s and 170s on the Falkirk/Stirling/Alloa routes from Queen St and Waverley and the E&G shuttle and the current tendered specification is for more 380s or 380-alikes.

 

[Class 170101]

You used a rolling eyes emoticon.
Does this mean the line south west of Ayr isn't electrified?

I'm afraid so.

 

[feline1]

I'm afraid so.

Oh well. I guess with the way public transport is run in this country, we should count ourselves lucky they're on the same gauge of track

 

[harz99]

You used a rolling eyes emoticon.
Does this mean the line south west of Ayr isn't electrified?

You know it isn't, if your comments on this thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91496, were in any way true and you had used the Railsail tickets to get to Northern Ireland from Brighton.

 

[clc]

Good news about the new services however the cynic inside of me is saying that this is so that should Scotland go independent they won't lose any trains to England / Wales.

Can you explain what you mean?

 

[NotATrainspott]

Good news about the new services however the cynic inside of me is saying that this is so that should Scotland go independent they won't lose any trains to England / Wales.

The trains used by ScotRail do not belong to Scotland, England, the UK or any government of the UK. They belong to ROSCOs, who are effectively banks, and they are leased to whoever will pay for them. There is no logic in arbitrarily sending them down south because they do not own them any more than anyone else does. The ROSCOs can lend or sell them to anyone that they want, which has been done for freight stock being sent to the Continent and there were suggestions of sending some of the 222s to Ireland/NI to be re-bogied and used on Dublin-Belfast. It is likely that at least some of the current ScotRail trains may end up being sent down south but only once they go off-lease and ScotRail has no more use for them - the company currently has a great number of local/regional DMUs which will be extremely valuable as Pacer replacements for Northern-Wales-Wessexland.

 

[reb0118]

How will these services be worked? Ayr - Glasgow is currently DOO whilst Glasgow - Carstairs - Edinburgh is traditionally worked with a guard. Both services use the class 380s.

 

[TheKnightWho]

How will these services be worked? Ayr - Glasgow is currently DOO whilst Glasgow - Carstairs - Edinburgh is traditionally worked with a guard. Both services use the class 380s.

Guard hops on and off at Glasgow? If it's just two diagrams put together that wouldn't really be an issue, and especially not from the passenger perspective.

 

[adrock1976]

Of course an alternative route Ayr - Edinburgh could be via the City Union Line if this was electrified as part of Glasgow Crossrail.

In peace
Adam

 

[Blindtraveler]

How will these services be worked? Ayr - Glasgow is currently DOO whilst Glasgow - Carstairs - Edinburgh is traditionally worked with a guard. Both services use the class 380s.

apart from when the all to regular 156 drops on it that is, although I guess this woant be nearly so much of a problem post May due to more 156s being needed for the extra WHL Oban turns? Beats me how they'll manage that, given the next batch of new wires woant go live till August but thats0Off Topic. I guess a guard will hop on and off at Central? Given the regular stop nature of even the fastest Glasgow>Ayr service, combined with the less attractive timing of the route via Carstairs its to be hoped Scotrail put a trolley on these trains, particularly if there after the leasure market

Also worth noting is that many of the Edinburgh>Central services hang around at Carstairs for quite a considerable time, I would guess Pathing issues? I guess we just have to assume Scotrail know what there doing here. I wonder how well the Edinburghs will connect with the coaches to Cairnryan for the ferry? If its not to horrendus it could make Sailraile more appealing to foalk from the East, given the alternatives are iether dragging luggage between two Glasgow Termini, going via shots or suffering an hour on an often late running voyager. Personally speeking the Citylink/Ulsterbus service 923 from Edinburgh direct to the port with the connection into Belfast on the other side takes a lot of beating and judging by how many families with young children have been on it the last cupple times others agree! ↲

 

[feline1]

You know it isn't, if your comments on this thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91496, were in any way true and you had used the Railsail tickets to get to Northern Ireland from Brighton.

Thanks for accusing me of lying, but I don't actually pay that much attention to the means of locomotion when I'm travelling. I'm usually reading a nice book or listening to my iPod or looking out the window.

 

[Altnabreac]

Interesting new service. From south of Glasgow to Edinburgh you do tend to be quicker/easier using either the Shotts semi fast or Carstairs services if they are leaving within 5-10 minutes of your arrival at Central. Otherwise walking to Queen St is the better option.

By linking two existing diagrams using the same stock you obviously guarentee this benefit and connection without any additional services having to run. In the medium term (Post 2019 electrification) it would be good to see these services divert to the slightly faster Shotts semi fast route.

I had understood this service option was fairly difficult to path because the Ayr and Carstairs trains tend to use opposite sides of Glasgow Central station so any reversing services have to cross the full station throat, reducing capacity slightly?

It may be that this is only an issue at peak hours so this occasional service can run but a regular hourly service perhaps would be more difficult to path reliably. Of course an hourly service would only be possible post Shotts electrification anyway.

 

[kylemore]

I travel from Ayrshire to Edinburgh occasionally and already plan my journey to use these services, now I won't even have to shift my behind!

However I generally don't plan my return and usually end up on a Queen St shuttle, could this become a pattern with the outgoing journeys busier than the returns?

 

[Scotrail84]

The Glasgow-Ayr and Glasgow-Edinburgh via Carstairs services are both Class 380 operated and all this news really is that they are diagramming the two routes together with a reversal at Glasgow Central. Since there were additional EMUs ordered for the aborted GARL project, on top of the existing spare EMU capacity available, there has been plenty of capacity available for all these new operations. Paisley Canal, Springburn-Cumbernauld, Motherwell-Cumbernauld and Central-Whifflet have been or will be transitioning to EMU operation without any more EMUs since the 380s. The next big order of EMUs is the EGIP order to replace the 158s and 170s on the Falkirk/Stirling/Alloa routes from Queen St and Waverley and the E&G shuttle and the current tendered specification is for more 380s or 380-alikes.

Also hearing around eight 380s will be modified with first class sections fitted, dampers etc to allow smoother running for services through to Berwick and Newcastle in the future should first keep the franchise.

 

[Scotrail84]

Of course an alternative route Ayr - Edinburgh could be via the City Union Line if this was electrified as part of Glasgow Crossrail.

In peace
Adam

In the timetable as a reversal in the central.

 

[Scotrail84]

We all have to learn I don't see why it needed that attitude :roll:



Good news about the new services however the cynic inside of me is saying that this is so that should Scotland go independent they won't lose any trains to England / Wales.



Where's the stock coming from for this, the bbc article says it starts from the May timetable change so it can't be due to EGIP can it?

When gsmr comes in throughout Central Scotland then 3 and 4 car 380s can run to/from Glasgow/Edinburgh and north Berwick as all of them are configured for conductor working, at present only 380 101-380 108 can be used east of carstairs as they are fitted with both gsmr and nrn radios in cabs.

 

[Altnabreac]

Also hearing around eight 380s will be modified with first class sections fitted, dampers etc to allow smoother running for services through to Berwick and Newcastle in the future should first keep the franchise.

It's a priced option within the Scotrail Franchise although there's no guarantee Transport Scotland will decide to fund it.

5.1 Improved services between Edinburgh and Berwick-upon-Tweed/Newcastle

Bidders are asked to find a solution to increase services between Edinburgh and Berwick-upon-Tweed, incorporating services to potential new stations at Reston and East Linton, by extending existing services between Edinburgh and Dunbar. Bidders may be informed by the recent appraisal carried out on behalf of SESTrans, available on the Data Site.

There may be scope for these services to extend further to Newcastle, through an agreement with the DfT and appropriate sponsored rail franchisees.

Bidders are required to include the following:

• A full description of the 7-day timetable for the services affected;
• A full description of rolling stock diagram changes; and
• An explanation of the revenue and cost impacts of the proposals.

In addition, Bidders should outline how they will work with Network Rail, local support groups and any DfT sponsored rail franchises.

My gut feeling is that the new services probably will happen as I understand there is high level political support for the new stations at East Linton and Reston.

Not so sure they'll manage to come to an agreement with DfT / Northern to take over any service south of Berwick but 380s would be a great improvement on Chathill and Morpeth services. Could also help the Belford station reopening get off the ground.

 

[Scotrail84]

It's a priced option within the Scotrail Franchise although there's no guarantee Transport Scotland will decide to fund it.



My gut feeling is that the new services probably will happen as I understand there is high level political support for the new stations at East Linton and Reston.

Not so sure they'll manage to come to an agreement with DfT / Northern to take over any service south of Berwick but 380s would be a great improvement on Chathill and Morpeth services. Could also help the Belford station reopening get off the ground.

I suspect that displaced 170s would be used instead of lecys

 

[NotATrainspott]

I suspect that displaced 170s would be used instead of lecys

Why though? The 170s would be entirely under the wires when there are places around the network crying out for more DMUs. The EGIP EMU order will be large enough that tagging on some more for extra services beyond EGIP, such as to Berwick or Newcastle, will be very easy.

On a cynical level I can see the Edinburgh-Newcastle service being a political ploy to the people of the North North East, saying that they are more appreciated by Edinburgh than they are by London. The current north-of-Newcastle services on the ECML are diagrammed for Pacers and as I said, the stock to be used on the ScotRail service would be a new or heavily refurbished EMU. The difference between the two couldn't be more stark.

 

[Scotrail84]

Why though? The 170s would be entirely under the wires when there are places around the network crying out for more DMUs. The EGIP EMU order will be large enough that tagging on some more for extra services beyond EGIP, such as to Berwick or Newcastle, will be very easy.



On a cynical level I can see the Edinburgh-Newcastle service being a political ploy to the people of the North North East, saying that they are more appreciated by Edinburgh than they are by London. The current north-of-Newcastle services on the ECML are diagrammed for Pacers and as I said, the stock to be used on the ScotRail service would be a new or heavily refurbished EMU. The difference between the two couldn't be more stark.

The other side off the coin I've heard is that 170 401-170 424 (Scotrails 1st gen turbos) will have retb radios fitted in cabs where the mitrac screens should be to enable them to work WHL services. I've no idea if turbos are permitted to run on this line due to their RA.

If this were to happen then electric traction looks likely for and services south to Newcastle.

On side note x/c voyagers run mostly under wires down to Leeds then again at Birmingham etc.