ScotRail cancelling services July 2024

[Peter0124]

Fair enough, although the '0700-1900' mentioned in Post #310 would not apply on Sundays, when there are no trains before 0700 anyway! Perhaps just on Saturdays?

When I read that post I interpreted the 1900 finish thing as including weekdays too, rather than just the weekends

 

[hexagon789]

Fair enough, although the '0700-1900' mentioned in Post #310 would not apply on Sundays, when there are no trains before 0700 anyway! Perhaps just on Saturdays?

When I read that post I interpreted the 1900 finish thing as including weekdays too, rather than just the weekends

There were annoucements at Glasgow Central today, saying that services would end earlier than normal but I couldn't quite make out if that meant today or in the immediate future.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

When I read that post I interpreted the 1900 finish thing as including weekdays too, rather than just the weekends

That’s correct. 0700-1900 Monday to Saturday. As for Sundays, I would think it would likely be the existing start of service until 1900.

There’s still a few things that could be dropped first though, such as the remaining fast Glasgow Central to Edinburgh via Shotts services.

Some areas are looking reasonably fine, particularly in the west which is why the Golf trains could run. In the East and the rural areas there are still noticeable gaps, especially on Sundays.

As I say this is all a rumour, you would like to think it won’t happen.

 

[Merseysider]

What an embarrassment. I’m in Inverness for a few days and can’t believe there are no afternoon services back from Wick / Kyle. Last service at 12/1pm doesn’t count!

Plenty of other local destinations to visit though.

Unbelievable, this state of affairs.

 

[Peter0124]

I guess its other modes of transport for anyone coming off any cross-border services arriving into Edinburgh or Glasgow after say 8pm and wanting to connect with Scotrail, if this 1900 finish happens.

 

[GordonT]

Is the already-reduced service performing so poorly that such a further savage withdrawal is necessary? My experience, on weekdays, is that this is not the case. On the two routes I used today, for example, the Wemyss Bay and Neilston branches, every single booked train so far today has run. And a quick check of other locations, such as Tweedbank and Dumfries, shows one cancellation at the former and none at the latter.

Cancellations of Edinburgh arrivals on Saturday 20th July. From the following locations with total cancellations in brackets:
North Berwick (15 journeys cancelled and replaced by a 2-hourly bus replacement)
Glasgow Queen Street (19); Tweedbank (15); Dunblane (14); Cowdenbeath (12); Glasgow Central (11); Aberdeen (4); Dunbar (4); Glenrothes with Thornton (4); Bathgate (3); Helensburgh Central (3); Leven (3); Dundee (2); Perth (2); Garscadden (1) and Motherwell (1). Total arrival rail cancellations (113).
Information from a realtimetrains.co.uk detailed search filtering under CAN.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

That’s correct. 0700-1900 Monday to Saturday. As for Sundays, I would think it would likely be the existing start of service until 1900.

This would imply they are significantly under establishment or is that they can't alter the rosters within x weeks so have to take more short term pain until they can better roster drivers to provide and all day service even if its a lower frequency.

 

[northscots]

It will only get worse once conductors start the same work to rule. They're currently being balloted on it.

 

[ld0595]

It will only get worse once conductors start the same work to rule. They're currently being balloted on it.

Any idea when results will come through / action will start? I'm considering just driving to/from Aberdeen in a few weeks and getting a refund on my booked train - especially since I return on a Sunday.

 

[Butts]

Any idea when results will come through / action will start? I'm considering just driving to/from Aberdeen in a few weeks and getting a refund on my booked train - especially since I return on a Sunday.

Considered City link ?

 

[Falcon1200]

That’s correct. 0700-1900 Monday to Saturday. As for Sundays, I would think it would likely be the existing start of service until 1900.

I would have to query again, why, given that the current service, Mon-Fri at least, is operating well? Any forthcoming Conductor issues will not affect the many services in the West of Scotland which are DOO. But we will have to wait and see what happens.

North Berwick (all 15 journeys cancelled and replaced by a 2-hourly bus replacement)

Last Saturday, on some routes at least, was appalling; Although to be fair (!) to Scotrail, some North Berwick trains did run, 4 in the morning and 2 at the end of service.

 

[GordonT]

I would have to query again, why, given that the current service, Mon-Fri at least, is operating well? Any forthcoming Conductor issues will not affect the many services in the West of Scotland which are DOO. But we will have to wait and see what happens.



Last Saturday, on some routes at least, was appalling; Although to be fair (!) to Scotrail, some North Berwick trains did run, 4 in the morning and 2 at the end of service.

The current Mon-Fri service whilst not as dire as weekend operations is still of concern.
A quick snapshot look at www.journeycheck.com/scotrail/ is enlightening.
Currently for today (Wednesday 24th) showing 22 Train Cancellations, 12 Other Train Updates and 36 Train Formation Updates. Nearly all of these are shown as being down to shortage of staff.
I'll try to paste the details of the 22 Cancellations below - apologies to mods if there's a more approved means of showing more than just the website link.

22 Cancellations

08:37 Milngavie to Springburn due 09:15
24/07/24 08:37 Milngavie to Springburn due 09:15 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:19

08:40 Dalmuir to Whifflet due 09:33
08:40 Dalmuir to Whifflet due 09:33 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :24/07/2024 04:53

08:44 Airdrie to Balloch due 10:03
24/07/24 08:44 Airdrie to Balloch due 10:03 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:21

09:10 Edinburgh to Helensburgh Central due 11:13
09:10 Edinburgh to Helensburgh Central due 11:13 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :24/07/2024 08:48

09:25 Springburn to Milngavie due 10:02
24/07/24 09:25 Springburn to Milngavie due 10:02 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:19

10:04 Whifflet to Dalmuir due 11:01
10:04 Whifflet to Dalmuir due 11:01 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :24/07/2024 04:53

10:08 Balloch to Airdrie due 11:27
24/07/24 10:08 Balloch to Airdrie due 11:27 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:21

11:33 Larkhall to Dalmuir due 12:42
11:33 Larkhall to Dalmuir due 12:42 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :24/07/2024 04:53

15:27 Glasgow Queen Street to Falkirk Grahamston due 16:07
15:27 Glasgow Queen Street to Falkirk Grahamston due 16:07 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :24/07/2024 05:30

15:32 Dundee to Arbroath due 15:57
24/07/24 15:32 Dundee to Arbroath due 15:57 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:21

16:34 Arbroath to Dundee due 16:59
24/07/24 16:34 Arbroath to Dundee due 16:59 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:21

16:38 Edinburgh to Dunblane due 17:38
24/07/24 16:38 Edinburgh to Dunblane due 17:38 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:28

16:55 Falkirk Grahamston to Glasgow Queen Street due 17:36
16:55 Falkirk Grahamston to Glasgow Queen Street due 17:36 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :24/07/2024 05:30

16:58 Edinburgh to Glasgow Central due 18:06
24/07/24 16:58 Edinburgh to Glasgow Central due 18:06 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:30

17:41 Edinburgh to Glenrothes With Thornton due 18:43
24/07/24 17:41 Edinburgh to Glenrothes With Thornton due 18:43 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:22

17:54 Dunblane to Edinburgh due 18:52
24/07/24 17:54 Dunblane to Edinburgh due 18:52 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:28

18:03 Glasgow Queen Street to Anniesland due 18:22
24/07/24 18:03 Glasgow Queen Street to Anniesland due 18:22 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:48

18:14 Glasgow Central to Edinburgh due 19:51
24/07/24 18:14 Glasgow Central to Edinburgh due 19:51 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:30

18:35 Anniesland to Glasgow Queen Street due 18:55
24/07/24 18:35 Anniesland to Glasgow Queen Street due 18:55 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:48

18:58 Glenrothes With Thornton to Edinburgh due 20:01
24/07/24 18:58 Glenrothes With Thornton to Edinburgh due 20:01 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:22

21:24 Edinburgh to Glasgow Central due 22:56
24/07/24 21:24 Edinburgh to Glasgow Central due 22:56 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:30

23:10 Glasgow Central to Edinburgh due 00:36
24/07/24 23:10 Glasgow Central to Edinburgh due 00:36 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.
Last Updated :23/07/2024 21:30

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I would have to query again, why, given that the current service, Mon-Fri at least, is operating well? Any forthcoming Conductor issues will not affect the many services in the West of Scotland which are DOO. But we will have to wait and see what happens.

And I duly referred the West is generally ok in the same post anyway. As I said it’s in the East and Rural areas where problems are continuing. The number of weekday cancellations has dropped massively, but there are still some.

I don’t want to come across as if I’m constantly going on about the short forming, but that’s where the largest problem exists on weekdays now, certainly in the East anyway. The cancellations are low and fairly manageable.

Take the 17:16 Edinburgh to Tweedbank yesterday as an example. This was shortformed with a single 158. The line having already been reduced from half hourly, to hourly. Approximately 50 people were left on the platform due to the overcrowding. The 16:42 Edinburgh to North Berwick, is down from 6 carriages to 3 while the 16:33 Dunbar doesn’t run at all in this timetable. Again, around 50 left on the platform. That’s just two trains from one station on the same day. Generally in a normal timetable if the 16:33 runs and the 16:42 is short formed it will still leave people on the platform, albeit significantly less.

To suggest the weekday service is working ‘well’, wouldn’t be entirely correct. Yes, it’s reduced the number of cancellations, but certainly I’m of the view that 100 people from two trains being left on the platform is just as bad. I have no doubt other examples of this exist. It’s maybe working well in the west, but in the East I’d call it more of a ‘mixed bag’.

Absolutely, there’s a clear problem to couple/detach sets due to resourcing, but a more practical solution needs to be found for this. Simply doing nothing isn’t an option. If they can find away to adjust the diagrams so that longer services can run all day, having been coupled all day. It will work and I think the public could probably accept it. Even if they got some kind of ticket acceptance plan or even a bus, something.

They’ve mashed together a lot of drivers diagrams at weekends which is why a lot of these cancellations appear. It's probably a confusing mess. There’s a few diagrams now that literally have 5-6 minutes for a driver to switch to another set as they have nobody else.

The fear of a further reduction in service could simply be having the plans in place if they need them. That aside, the weekend service isn’t looking too good at all though. Something will change with this and that’s perhaps where we might see this rumour become reality.

The current Mon-Fri service whilst not as dire as weekend operations is still of concern.
A quick snapshot look at www.journeycheck.com/scotrail/ is enlightening.
Currently for today (Wednesday 24th) showing 22 Train Cancellations, 12 Other Train Updates and 36 Train Formation Updates. Nearly all of these are shown as being down to shortage of staff.

It should also be added that the 36 Train Formation Changes is a bit of a white lie. Anything that is now booked with less carriages, doesn’t appear on this list either. The 16:42 North Berwick being an example of this. Interestingly more than half of the short formations have been blamed on ‘a broken down train’ as well. Seems a bit strange.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing of particular note is that the West Highland Line service has returned to the timetable from about 10 years ago (ish) which means there's no Sunday morning train and so it's again now not possible to reach England (or indeed most other places south of the Central Belt) from Fort William on a Sunday without an overnight stay or the Sleeper. I bet Citylink who provided the only realistic way to do it are loving it...

 

[GordonT]

And I duly referred the West is generally ok in the same post anyway. As I said it’s in the East and Rural areas where problems are continuing. The number of weekday cancellations has dropped massively, but there are still some.

Surely a slightly greater proportion of today's cancellations are West orientated?

 

[northscots]

Any idea when results will come through / action will start? I'm considering just driving to/from Aberdeen in a few weeks and getting a refund on my booked train - especially since I return on a Sunday.

It's a 4 week ballot that just opened and then they need to give 2 weeks notice of any action so I'm guess end of August. To be fair, services in and out of Aberdeen, whilst reduced, seem to be running well with very few on the day cancellations.

 

[VioletEclipse]

How is the Highland Mainline looking for overcrowding? Was intending to use it in August, but if this stays as bad or gets worse I might not.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Given it's usually overcrowded in the high summer with a normal timetable, I wouldn't like to think too hard about what it's like now

 

[John Bishop]

How is the Highland Mainline looking for overcrowding? Was intending to use it in August, but if this stays as bad or gets worse I might not.

It’s a nightmare. Not helped with short forms resulting in lots of people being left behind along the route. Truly embarrassing for the country.

 

[VioletEclipse]

It’s a nightmare. Not helped with short forms resulting in lots of people being left behind along the route. Truly embarrassing for the country.

I feared that would be the case. Thanks for saying, and I don't suspect it'll be much better in August, even after the schools go back. Might avoid it this year, as that sounds like a thouroughly unpleasant experience.

 

[Retorus]

Is there no end in sight, then?

 

[John Bishop]

Is there no end in sight, then?

Not until the SG step in and engage with the unions. The refuse collectors will also be going on strike shortly in Scotland so not looking great for the summer here.

 

[snookertam]

Is there no end in sight, then?

No. Everyone is bedding in for the long haul here.

The Scottish Government were happy to let bin workers go on strike during the festival a few years ago, washed their hands of it and blamed Edinburgh City Council, so I’d imagine their approach to disruption during the festival will be the same. Unions are quite clear it’s the government who are causing this though.

 

[Butts]

No. Everyone is bedding in for the long haul here.

The Scottish Government were happy to let bin workers go on strike during the festival a few years ago, washed their hands of it and blamed Edinburgh City Council, so I’d imagine their approach to disruption during the festival will be the same. Unions are quite clear it’s the government who are causing this though.

Perhaps renationalisation is not the panacea it's cracked up to be if this is a foretaste of the future ?

 

[greatkingrat]

I don't see running 0700-1900 helps that much. If a driver is rostered to work 1700-0100, Scotrail can't just decide to make them come in at 1200 instead. So you end with people on early and late turns sitting around doing nothing for half their shift because no trains are running?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I don't see running 0700-1900 helps that much. If a driver is rostered to work 1700-0100, Scotrail can't just decide to make them come in at 1200 instead. So you end with people on early and late turns sitting around doing nothing for half their shift because no trains are running?

They can still do Empty Coaching Stock moves (ECS), shunts and also coupling up/detaching. There’s always plenty of moves like that.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm just waiting for them to blame Westminster for the current shambles

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps renationalisation is not the panacea it's cracked up to be if this is a foretaste of the future ?

I don't think many claim it is. It was still the right thing to do without question in my view.

 

[Butts]

I don't think many claim it is. It was still the right thing to do without question in my view.

Are the Train Leasing Companies being Nationalised as well ?

 

[hexagon789]

Are the Train Leasing Companies being Nationalised as well ?

No, the ROSCOs will continue as is.