I queried the FNL with Scotrail on twitter before I saw this thread. Because aside from having more services going north than south (maybe they'll use some of those sidings that are always empty ), if the 0802 Wick->Inverness doesn't run then I don't think it's possible to get a ferry from Orkney and arrive in Edinburgh before about 10pm...
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ScotRail cancelling services July 2024
- Thread starter eoff
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I queried the FNL with Scotrail on twitter before I saw this thread. Because aside from having more services going north than south (maybe they'll use some of those sidings that are always empty ), if the 0802 Wick->Inverness doesn't run then I don't think it's possible to get a ferry from Orkney and arrive in Edinburgh before about 10pm...
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RailUK Forums
Despite it being 10pm the journey planners don't seem to have been updated for the temporary timetable.
On every train which shows on the journey planner it says:
"Travel information for ScotRail customers: Temporary Timetable changes until at least Sunday 21 July. If you are travelling from Wednesday 10 July, please check back"
On every train which shows on the journey planner it says:
"Travel information for ScotRail customers: Temporary Timetable changes until at least Sunday 21 July. If you are travelling from Wednesday 10 July, please check back"
Now saying 03:00!!!
Unfortunately, due to the volume of changes being made at once, our app and website will not actually reflect the correct timetable for tomorrow until 0300.
We are very sorry to those who were waiting to check their services and make plans for tomorrow.
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No it’s caused by an overtime ban by Aslef! Scotrail has introduced an emergency timetable.
Can they do that? I had thought that even the dubious "we're not cancelling trains, it's a new timetable" excuse required the timetable to be in place by 10pm the night before. Surely everybody delayed tomorrow can claim Delay Repay?
5 hours late, full refund !!!!
Leven Railuser
Member
That 3am announcement... lead balloon
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
Is it a full on ban? As far as I knew it was just a mutual agreement between drivers that they wouldn’t do overtime, as is the case at several other TOC’s. I don’t remember a ScotRail ballot being passed either way, but might be wrong.
Dfatcontroller
Member
Not with the amount of work that would require!
03:00 is when timetables are rebuilt on all downstream systems from the NR planning system.
22:00 always felt a bit dubious.
The 10pm "timetable of the day" wording was removed in the new NRCoT from 2 April.
Ah, thanks. Does that mean they can now impose a new timetable at any time they like? Or... something else?
I can just imagine... "No, we didn't cancel that train, we just introduced a new timetable that didn't include that train, five minutes before its old departure time"
Planesandtrain
Member
- Joined
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- 79
Unbelievable. Just goes to show how Europes railway managers have run the system into the ground. Now I can replan everything I had planned.
The timetable has always rebuilt at 3am, disruption or not.
Therefore it seems the amount of alterations have not yet been confirmed and the night controllers will need to go through and work them all out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s still gaps in the morning with trains showing as “Delayed” until it’s clear they won’t run.
If it’s not done before 2200, they can’t be PG’d though, so at least it will just be cancelled rather than deleted (I.e not showing at all) entirely.
Until train planners have a chance to upload a new STP timetable (probably tomorrow for Thursday) the LTP with shaky alterations will have to suffice. A timetable is a complex beast with all the crew and fleet links to be worked out and it depends at which point the planning team was tasked with this beyond what the public knew and when they realised the deadline couldn’t be met.
Therefore it seems the amount of alterations have not yet been confirmed and the night controllers will need to go through and work them all out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s still gaps in the morning with trains showing as “Delayed” until it’s clear they won’t run.
If it’s not done before 2200, they can’t be PG’d though, so at least it will just be cancelled rather than deleted (I.e not showing at all) entirely.
Until train planners have a chance to upload a new STP timetable (probably tomorrow for Thursday) the LTP with shaky alterations will have to suffice. A timetable is a complex beast with all the crew and fleet links to be worked out and it depends at which point the planning team was tasked with this beyond what the public knew and when they realised the deadline couldn’t be met.
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Dfatcontroller
Member
It's the Train Planning created TT that starts Wednesday.
No ban of any sort currently in place, nor indeed has there been any official direction from Aslef to members to do anything. Aslef organiser in Scotland has advised ScotRail they will be seeking a ballot for industrial action when they next meet the ASLEF Executive Committee. Until then, there is not even a dispute between Aslef and ScotRail.
If driver's choose to enjoy their days off during the summer holidays, it is up to them. Staff can't be held responsible for the failure of an employer that does not resource it's staff levels correctly. Most of the complaining passengers/enthusiasts etc etc would be outraged if they had to sacrifice their days off to work because their employer couldn't be bothered employing the correct amount of people to deliver the services they signed up to deliver.
Falcon1200
Established Member
Interesting! Wherever I worked on the railway summer was always the most popular time for taking holidays.
Looking at my area, the Neilston service has not suffered too badly, with just some peak hour extras withdrawn, and the early and late trains still run. Just down the road however, the first train from Kilmarnock to Glasgow C at 0522, which calls at all stations, is cancelled; The first train now is 90 minutes later, at 0652! This also means that for the three stations between Barrhead and Busby Jc (Nitshill, Priesthill and Kennishead) the first train is now 100 minutes later.
There must be a concern that, just as the pre-Covid timetable has never been fully restored, some of the temporary withdrawals end up becoming permanent.
Never mind 3am timetable release, how about a 0741 announcement that the timetable they are running today is not available anywhere!! I'm not sure there is any way to find out train times short of showing up at a station
EDIT: Fortunately they're wrong. traintimes.org.uk, at least, is showing a reduced service for tomorrow, so I assume it has the new timetable.
EDIT: Fortunately they're wrong. traintimes.org.uk, at least, is showing a reduced service for tomorrow, so I assume it has the new timetable.
Attachments
That website still shows the full timetable for my line, unless they've gone back on what they said last night.
hah, so maybe the changes are *partly* implemented in today's planners....
FlybeDash8Q400
Established Member
Yes, the system the railway has is fine if everyone wants overtime. The second people don’t, it falls off a cliff. It’s obviously harder for drivers to meet hidden rules as well, so their overtime is always usually less anyway. I see it myself every day. Sometimes it’s fine, sometimes you can’t do everything as the staff:amount of work ratio isn’t close at all.
I remember the issues from a couple of years ago and clearly remember one of the agreements was they would recruit more drivers. Now obviously ScotRail needed time to recruit and train said drivers, but the number recruited so far apparently isn’t even close to what they need. It’s little surprise ASLEF and specifically it’s members through a combination of all the factors put together, have got tired of it.
Falcon1200
Established Member
Realtime Trains looks pretty accurate for the routes I have checked, as per my post #139, although of course this is not an official Scotrail source.
Have there been changes to the inter7city diagrams or have the reductions been made by just removing entire diagrams from the daily allocation?
Given that Glasgow-Aberdeen is seeing a near 50% reduction in service at a busy time of the year, it is quite appalling that some of the services each way are run by short-formed DMU’s today!
Given that Glasgow-Aberdeen is seeing a near 50% reduction in service at a busy time of the year, it is quite appalling that some of the services each way are run by short-formed DMU’s today!
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Only the 1841 was booked HST and isn't today, the other units are on what were unit workings.
Devils Advocat
Member
Am I missunderstanding things ? Realtime trains showing nearly all Glasgow to Aberdeen as running and covered by HST's. Need to know as I have a 'bucket list' trip
to Scotty in 11 days time.
to Scotty in 11 days time.
There’s 3 of the handful of services running 170 northbound and a few southbound also. RTT doesn’t say what’s running the 0944 south today (very busy service) so may have been a substitution there also.
My point was that if an hourly service has suddenly become two hourly at a busy time of the year, it’s a bit poor that the lowest seating capacity trains available for the route are being used at all until the timetable improves. There’s been good HST availability for the hourly service lately so can’t be due to a shortage.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Should be HA24 on 1T26 (0944 Aberdeen to Glasgow QS)
I think the issue is changing the diagrams.
For example the 1007 Glasgow to I'm is normally HST, but is 170 today because the morning Arbroath to Glasgow was used to form it, it normally forms the Dundee stopper immediately afterwards but this is withdrawn. The 1450 from Inverness is the return leg of the diagram of the 1007, and on arriving in Glasgow then goes on to form the 1741 to Aberdeen, which is why that service is a 170 today.
Whether this will continue or diagrams will be adjusted though...
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