ScotRail - charged Anytime return for off-peak train

[Scotrail12]

I was on the 1617 from High Street to Blairhill earlier, and was charged £7.20 for a return ticket on this route. I have taken this particular train on a Sunday almost every week for 2 years and have always been charged between £4 & £4.50 (fares have increased a little bit every so often). I was surprised at this and asked the inspector who said that the tickets used to be £6.80, to which I replied that they weren't whilst he insisted that they were. He then just walked away and refused to engage further.

After checking the tickets online, it says that an off-peak return (which my train fit under) costs £4.50 at the moment. What I would have expected. The £7.20 ticket is for an anytime return. I don't understand this because weekends are off-peak all day.

He also said I was being charged more because I was buying on the train. First of all, High Street has insufficient ticketing facilities (no machines and the office has often closed on Sundays) so being charged more is (IMO) an unfair penalty and secondly, I've paid on the train for years and never been charged this. Why would that change now?

So I'm completely confused as to why I was charged this higher priced ticket on a day which is fully off-peak. Can anyone please help me out here?

 

[Hadders]

High Street to Blairhill off peak day return is £4.50 and there are no restrictions on Sundays. If there were no ticket issuing facilities at High Street then you should’ve been sold the off peak ticket. According to NationalRail.co.uk the ticket office at High Street is open on Sundays from 08:10 until 23:15.

I would complain to Scotrail and ask for a refund of the amount you’ve been overcharged.

 

[reb0118]

Did your station have working ticket issuing facilities?

 

[Master29]

Did your station have working ticket issuing facilities?

No, the OP states that there are no machines and the office is closed on Sundays.

 

[Scotrail12]

According to NationalRail.co.uk the ticket office at High Street is open on Sundays from 08:10 until 23:15.

After seeing this, I ran out to the station to double check and it was fully closed at 20.35 tonight. So those opening hours (though listed on both National Rail and ScotRail sites) are most definitely untrue. I have never once seen the office open on a Sunday.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Did your station have working ticket issuing facilities?

No, the OP states that there are no machines and the office is closed on Sundays.

The ticket office at High Street (Glasgow) is supposedly meant to be open on Sundays, but there are no ticket machines there if it isn't, as has been reported upthread.

 

[Parham Wood]

High Street to Blairhill off peak day return is £4.50 and there are no restrictions on Sundays. If there were no ticket issuing facilities at High Street then you should’ve been sold the off peak ticket. According to NationalRail.co.uk the ticket office at High Street is open on Sundays from 08:10 until 23:15.

I would complain to Scotrail and ask for a refund of the amount you’ve been overcharged.

I would also ask for a gesture of goodwill for your time and inconvenience having to make a claim.

 

[Starmill]

It's worth asking ScotRail to ensure that their onboard staff are familiar with the rules around the availability of the ticket office and machines.

Also ask them to confirm in writing that the ticket office was closed, and that the station doesn't have any ticket machines.

 

[Sirius]

He also said I was being charged more because I was buying on the train.

I wonder if Scotrail are now taking a harder line on this. Of course they’re in the wrong if the ticket office was closed and no TVM.

 

[Hadders]

To be fair to the onboard member of staff they might not be aware that the ticket office was closed. Officially it was supposed to be open and although the member fo staff could've taken the passengers word for it, you could very quickly have a situation where all a passenger without a ticket has to do is claim the ticket office was closed and they will simply be sold an off-peak ticket.

There could well be a comminications issue within Scotrail.

 

[fandroid]

To be fair to the onboard member of staff they might not be aware that the ticket office was closed. Officially it was supposed to be open and although the member fo staff could've taken the passengers word for it, you could very quickly have a situation where all a passenger without a ticket has to do is claim the ticket office was closed and they will simply be sold an off-peak ticket.

There could well be a comminications issue within Scotrail.

Is there any reason why they shouldn't have been sold an Offpeak ticket anyway? Charging the Anytime fare during Offpeak times is a silly and sad sort of mini Penalty Fare system.

 

[Watershed]

Is there any reason why they shouldn't have been sold an Offpeak ticket anyway? Charging the Anytime fare during Offpeak times is a silly and sad sort of mini Penalty Fare system.

NRCoT condition 9.2.1 entitles TOCs to charge the undiscounted Anytime Single to the next stop if you fail to use available ticketing facilities. Effectively, this is a form of penalty - and it's the only financial penalty that can be applied for operators such as ScotRail, where Penalty Fares don't apply.

However, discretion is exercised in many cases - for example, even if you're charged the Anytime fare, it's common practice still to be sold a return, and to be sold a ticket to the station you actually want to travel to. That, in itself, may save you a fair amount compared to only getting an Anytime Single to the next stop and then having to buy a new ticket for the rest of your journey.

In this case, NRCoT condition 9.2.1 didn't apply because there weren't any ticketing facilities available. The OP would have been well advised to mention this to the member of staff at the time, but they can just as well claim back the amount they were overcharged by from ScotRail by sending in a complaint.

 

[Buzby]

I’ve no idea how long NR/ScotRail have been saying the ticket office is open on Sundays, but on my regular trips from there to Blairhill it was always closed and I assumed this was normal - something I’ll watch out for now!

 

[Sirius]

Can I just check everyone knows the ticket office is at the top of the stairs on the same side as platform 1 (to Helensburgh, Balloch, Milngavie etc.) and not platform 2 (to Edinburgh, Airdrie, Springburn).

The platform 2 side has the shutters down permanently and used to be a sandwich shop. The published times are consistent with the station being staffed broadly from the first train til the last every day. It also used to be locked at night creating a rare instance where trains couldn’t call there at the start of service if that member of staff was ill/late.

Of course that could have changed and a reduced opening hours accommodated with staff from Glasgow Queen Street doing the honours.

 

[Starmill]

Can I just check everyone knows the ticket office is at the top of the stairs on the same side as platform 1 (to Helensburgh, Balloch, Milngavie etc.) and not platform 2 (to Edinburgh, Airdrie, Springburn).

The platform 2 side has the shutters down permanently and used to be a sandwich shop. The published times are consistent with the station being staffed broadly from the first train til the last every day. It also used to be locked at night creating a rare instance where trains couldn’t call there at the start of service if that member of staff was ill/late.

Of course that could have changed and a reduced opening hours accommodated with staff from Glasgow Queen Street doing the honours.

Presumably the station is single staffed, or is some of the time, which is why the booking office can't be open at all times.

This is why it's generally a good idea to provide some ticket machines...

Officially it was supposed to be open and although the member fo staff could've taken the passengers word for it, you could very quickly have a situation where all a passenger without a ticket has to do is claim the ticket office was closed and they will simply be sold an off-peak ticket.

I don't think I have seen anyone suggest taking the customer's word for it. If ScotRail haven't provided the live station facilities information on journey check to their front-line staff's work mobile devices then I don't really see what anyone other than ScotRail can possibly do about that though.

 

[eoff]

In the case that a passenger meets the requirements to be on the train without a ticket can they refuse to engage further with someone on the train who says they have to purchase on overpriced ticket on the basis it is not "an appropriate Ticket" and attempt to purchase one later in the journey?

 

[Watershed]

In the case that a passenger meets the requirements to be on the train without a ticket can they refuse to engage further with someone on the train who says they have to purchase on overpriced ticket on the basis it is not "an appropriate Ticket" and attempt to purchase one later in the journey?

Regardless of whether or not it's legal, I don't think anyone could say it's advisable. Better to pay what's demanded and then submit a complaint to claim back any amount you're overcharged by, or get off the train and take the next one if you can't afford to pay the higher amount, again submitting a complaint to ask for Delay Repay or equivalent compensation.

 

[Starmill]

In the case that a passenger meets the requirements to be on the train without a ticket can they refuse to engage further with someone on the train who says they have to purchase on overpriced ticket on the basis it is not "an appropriate Ticket" and attempt to purchase one later in the journey?

No. In the admittedly very unlikely event that the police are called, and officers actually attend the train, they'll simply ask you to leave. If you resist their attempt to coerce you off the train, you could be arrested. Your actions may be alleged to be a refusal to pay, or obstruction of an officer, with accompanying offences. You would also risk the burns if you were handcuffed. And finally, trying to get an apology and compensation from a police force when they make this kind of mistaken action is even more difficult than from a train company.

Do not escalate any situation about tickets to possible police involvement. They are not there to be impartial, they are there to persuade you to do as you're told. Though you could of course say that is true generally too...