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Scotrail disruption 12/12/22

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scotrail158713

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Why not bring the 385s back to the Cathcart Circle/Newton/Gourock/Wemyss Bay then? Short-form some Shotts and Lanark services to provide the stock.

The 318/320 can also supplement the 385s on those services as long as the service runs with highest possible frequency without 380s being available.
I might be misremembering the specific details of it however were there not issues previously when running 385s on services like the Cathcart circle? I want to say it was something to do with the shorter distances between stops.
 
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hexagon789

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I might be misremembering the specific details of it however were there not issues previously when running 385s on services like the Cathcart circle? I want to say it was something to do with the shorter distances between stops.
334s and 380s also, due to the method of ventilating the traction motors.
 

Falcon1200

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Expect to see them out of commission for Xmas and New Year period at least. Initial chat is this isn’t a quick fix.

Can’t even be moved as ECS as the moment.

That's very worrying, but if the problem is caused by the freezing temperatures, will it not end when temperatures rise, as forecast, unless actual damage has been caused to the sets? It is a strange situation, given that Class 380 has been in service for 10 years!
 

MadMac

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I might be misremembering the specific details of it however were there not issues previously when running 385s on services like the Cathcart circle? I want to say it was something to do with the shorter distances between stops.
A six car 385 won’t fit in the reversing siding at Neilston.
 

380101

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A 380 was due to move to Ayr this afternoon/early evening at somepoint. Not sure if the move went ahead or not though.
 

hexagon789

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The 380s work Neilston and Newton services all day with no restrictions applied.
Is it 334s and 385s only?

With 380s not having force air ventilated motors then?

This has come up in the past, but I think the precise details kept getting lost in the thread.
 

Ex-controller

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Is it 334s and 385s only?

With 380s not having force air ventilated motors then?

This has come up in the past, but I think the precise details kept getting lost in the thread.

Only 385s are restricted, banned in fact, but I don’t believe it’s anything to do with the speed.

Never any restrictions on 334s either. This is just a story that only exists on these forums.
 

hexagon789

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Only 385s are restricted, banned in fact, but I don’t believe it’s anything to do with the speed.

Never any restrictions on 334s either. This is just a story that only exists on these forums.
That's more than fair enough, one of those sort of legends repeated through the years to the point it seems like fact.

For the 385s, is it indeed due to how the motors are ventilated?

Are 156s still on the Ayr services this weekend?
If they are, it'll only be Sunday. No trains to Ayrshire on Sat.
 

SC318250

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If 380s do remain out of service, could they use Class 318/320 on service where Corkerhill drivers are available?
I know the DOO mirrors/screens are away but if that is all that is available could they use them? Or would a guard be required to operate doors (on 318s if this is still able to be used. Dont think the 320s have guard operation available)
 

Peter0124

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I don't think running 318/320 in Ayrshire will work anymore if the DOO monitors aren't there.

My speculative ideas of potential service levels without the 380s:

2tph to Ayr all stops with 156s, with buses from Kilwinning to Ardrossan/Largs
2tph to Gourock all stops with 318/320/385
1tph to Wemyss Bay semi fast with 318/320/385
2tph to Paisley Canal with 318/320
2tph to Neilston with 318/320
2tph to Newton with 318/320/385

As said above, running more 334s on Argyle to get enough stock to run the services etc
 

GLC

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Only 385s are restricted, banned in fact, but I don’t believe it’s anything to do with the speed.

Never any restrictions on 334s either. This is just a story that only exists on these forums.
Not a clear cut restriction, but an old Transport Scotland document discussing 314 replacements states that “class 334 units are not suitable for prolonged operation on the Cathcart circle all day - the thermal capacity of the traction equipment is insufficient to cope with the harsh duty cycle of both traction and braking”


 

Peter0124

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Where are you going to find twelve 156s? (assuming 4-car formations)
156s have their own services to run too which could also be decimated if required to run to Ayr.

There's also the minor detail that only Ayr Conductors sign the Ayr Mainline.
Reduce to 1tph if necessary or even 1.5tph
 

hexagon789

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Not a clear cut restriction, but an old Transport Scotland document discussing 314 replacements states that “class 334 units are not suitable for prolonged operation on the Cathcart circle all day - the thermal capacity of the traction equipment is insufficient to cope with the harsh duty cycle of both traction and braking”


Thank you for posting this. I'd a vague idea someone did post a source, but couldn't find a previous thread mentioning the restriction with any source so assumed as per Ex-controller's post that it was hearsay.

Anyway...

Reduce to 1tph if necessary or even 1.5tph
I think what was run on Monday is likely to be what runs until the 380 issues are fixed, a few peak services to/from Ayr and reduced Gourock/Wemyss Bay/Paisley Canal so they can run as all 385s/320s as necessary.

I don't think the resources exist for much beyond that.
 

Peter0124

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I think what was run on Monday is likely to be what runs until the 380 issues are fixed, a few peak services to/from Ayr and reduced Gourock/Wemyss Bay/Paisley Canal so they can run as all 385s/320s as necessary.

I don't think the resources exist for much beyond that.
Fine about Ayr but the Inverclyde/Neilston/Newton shouldn't be reduced because stock is available through short forming other services and sending more 334s to the Argyle Line
 

Ex-controller

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Not a clear cut restriction, but an old Transport Scotland document discussing 314 replacements states that “class 334 units are not suitable for prolonged operation on the Cathcart circle all day - the thermal capacity of the traction equipment is insufficient to cope with the harsh duty cycle of both traction and braking”


With respect, Transport Scotland don’t have a clue what they’re talking about.

They still work Milngavie to Springburn services which aren’t too far removed from what they’d encounter on the Cathcart circle routes.
 

Huntergreed

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Are 334’s still cleared down to Ayr?

A very serious situation indeed of all 380’s are completely out - interesting that other Desiros aren’t affected, is this an issue with an exclusive feature of 380s?

Let’s hope that at least some service is salvageable!
 

Carntyne

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Are 334’s still cleared down to Ayr?

A very serious situation indeed of all 380’s are completely out - interesting that other Desiros aren’t affected, is this an issue with an exclusive feature of 380s?

Let’s hope that at least some service is salvageable!
334's are busy on A2B.
 

Huntergreed

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334's are busy on A2B.
Working in double though? Whilst not ideal for capacity, if making them single would allow a somewhat reasonable service on the Ayrshire coast, it would seem silly not to at least consider it.
 

380101

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Working in double though? Whilst not ideal for capacity, if making them single would allow a somewhat reasonable service on the Ayrshire coast, it would seem silly not to at least consider it.
There's no drivers to drive 334s on the Ayrshire lines, so it just isn't going to happen!

Seems everyone missed my post further up the thread saying that a 380 was due to leave Glasgow to move to Ayr yesterday afternoon, which suggests the problem has been overcome.
 

Peter0124

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There's no drivers to drive 334s on the Ayrshire lines, so it just isn't going to happen!

Seems everyone missed my post further up the thread saying that a 380 was due to leave Glasgow to move to Ayr yesterday afternoon, which suggests the problem has been overcome.
334s could go onto the Argyle Line to send some extra 318/320 to Inverclyde/Cathcart. Nothing to do with 334s being sent to Ayr. Ayr will have to be stuck with 156s if the problem isn't fixed

Likewise short forming a few Shotts/Lanark trains to allow 385s to work some services aswell.
 

ForsythA

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There's no drivers to drive 334s on the Ayrshire lines, so it just isn't going to happen!

Seems everyone missed my post further up the thread saying that a 380 was due to leave Glasgow to move to Ayr yesterday afternoon, which suggests the problem has been overcome.
Seems that move was cancelled - a 6 car 156 was sent down and a 4 car came back
 

Bill57p9

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Seems everyone missed my post further up the thread saying that a 380 was due to leave Glasgow to move to Ayr yesterday afternoon, which suggests the problem has been overcome.
I want it to be true, but looking at RTT the only movements in Ayrshire yesterday were the Prestwick Airport fuel and an exchange of 156s between Corkerhill and Ayr depots.
And nothing running today.
 

380101

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Seems that move was cancelled - a 6 car 156 was sent down and a 4 car came back

I did think it was strange they wanted someone to go to Glasgow to bring a 380 down given that we'd not had any and still have not had any communication from management over the last few days.

***UPDATE***
380s returning to service over the next few days as and when they have had replacement Star valves fitted to the brake system and the air dryer system filters replaced. This will be a slow process due to having to get the units out to Shields Road TMD around Network Rail strikes.

320/4s will be utilised to strengthen Inverclyde services and 156s will continue to cover on Ayr services until sufficient 380s are returned to service over the next few days.
 
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