ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Class83]

This seems to have gone eerily quiet, is there any news on delivery? Given 4 sets should have been in service in May, and all 26 by next May, which with none complete means they need to be delivering 2-3 sets per month now.

 

[mullac30]

The guy who worked at Wabtec(?) said that the first set was due to be completed and delivered on June 22nd before he stopped posting on the forum.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Sadly nothing nowadays ever seems to run to time and so not sure why we expect anything to do so.
This was a pretty good idea utilising what are pretty comfortable vehicles especially if given good interiors, but needing a lot of modifications and all MK3s not being equal, plenty work on those doors.
I'm sure they will get there in the end, but the end of when i'm not sure.

 

[ld0595]

Was also thinking it's been awfully quiet lately. I seem to recall Alex Hynes saying that there will be one in passenger service by July, so hopefully that is still the case.

 

[gingertom]

Was also thinking it's been awfully quiet lately. I seem to recall Alex Hynes saying that there will be one in passenger service by July, so hopefully that is still the case.

he's got 4 weeks. We're watching.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Was also thinking it's been awfully quiet lately. I seem to recall Alex Hynes saying that there will be one in passenger service by July, so hopefully that is still the case.

Was that before or after the 385 issue?

 

[mullac30]

Was that before or after the 385 issue?

It was a few weeks ago.

 

[Macwomble]

I seem to recall Alex Hynes saying that there will be one in passenger service by July

Yeah, but did he say in which year!

 

[jingsmonty]

Yeah, but did he say in which year!

Rumour has it that Scotrail have applied for a license to run 2 (I think) sets from December with unrefurbished slam door Mk3 stock....

 

[xotGD]

Rumour has it that Scotrail have applied for a license to run 2 (I think) sets from December with unrefurbished slam door Mk3 stock....

TPE have a couple of sets they could use...

 

[The_Engineer]

TPE have a couple of sets they could use...

…… which are loco hauled types - no good! There are plenty of unrefurbished HST trailers coming off-lease, however

 

[jingsmonty]

…… which are loco hauled types - no good! There are plenty of unrefurbished HST trailers coming off-lease, however

I wonder if the rumoured slam door stock will be internally refurbished, apart from the doors, as the internal layout will be unique to Scotrail (no TGS coach, Conductor accomodation in buffet/composite coach)?

 

[dmkc]

The pressure placed on stock utilisation by the lateness of the 385 is maybe due to ease off given the good news on the 385s and the 365s now in service.
If the HSTs are heavily delayed is that pressure likely to return if more 170s are due off lease (bit ignorant of what goes when)

 

[47802]

I wonder if the rumoured slam door stock will be internally refurbished, apart from the doors, as the internal layout will be unique to Scotrail (no TGS coach, Conductor accomodation in buffet/composite coach)?

Why would they do that just use a TGS until the powered door coaches are available, I would imagine staff are likely to require separate training for a slam door set, and a powered door set anyway.

When I suggested a couple of months ago that all the current orders for Scotrail, GWR and XC would not be completed by the end of 2019, I was shot down on that one, however I'm still sticking to that belief.

 

[Chuggington21]

I believe the only delay is the coaches coming from where ever they are getting refurbished. There's enough crew and locos ready to go

 

[Highlandspring]

One of the HST sets is running Craigentinny to Eastfield later today, due into Queen Street briefly from 1227 to 1233.

 

[Aictos]

Long shot but what are the chances of them entering services in December?

 

[Chuggington21]

Long shot but what are the chances of them entering services in December?

I'd say before. Scotrail are trying there hardest to get them in real soon

 

[a_c_skinner]

I’ve just been through Haymarket and there was a First liveried 125, unmodified doors on I think a delayed Inverness to Edinburgh service. I have no idea if this is correct or interesting, but it was a 125 in blue with those coloured squiggles. Apologies for the jargon!

 

[43096]

I’ve just been through Haymarket and there was a First liveried 125, unmodified doors on I think a delayed Inverness to Edinburgh service. I have no idea if this is correct or interesting, but it was a 125 in blue with those coloured squiggles. Apologies for the jargon!

As stated before, it’s a training run. Not in passenger service.

 

[Northhighland]

I'd say before. Scotrail are trying there hardest to get them in real soon

Hard to see how they will be earlier. Wabtec seem to have work piling up and no deliveries happening. One set to GWR so far.

 

[Non Multi]

I'm sure I saw a Scotrail MK3 with what looked like finished sliding doors (I initially thought it was a XC, but looking online it wasn't XC livery) being shunted around Wabtec 2 weeks ago, so they are making progress.

 

[Aictos]

The reason I ask if they will be in passenger service for the Dec TT is due to the issues regarding the introduction of the Class 385 being delayed which obviously is having a impact on the HST introduction.

 

[gordonjahn]

The reason I ask if they will be in passenger service for the Dec TT is due to the issues regarding the introduction of the Class 385 being delayed which obviously is having a impact on the HST introduction.

I don't believe that 385 delays are impacting on the HST introduction at all - it's the HST refurb delays that are having an impact on HST introduction!

My understanding of the stock situation around 385s/365s/170s/HSTs...

• 385s with windscreen mods are passed for passenger service and a small number (less than 10) have had the mods. These are likely to enter service in the next couple of weeks. Remaining units will be modded but this will probably happen fairly quickly.
• 10 365s (as of a couple of hours ago) are in Scotland and 6 or 8 of those are modded and good for service - they are expected to stay here for a year.
• There were a total of 16 170s to go to Northern - 4 in March, 6 in July and 6 in November.
• 4x modified HST sets were to be available for the May timetable change, this didn't happen and Scotrail have apparently asked about using unmodified stock from December

I suspect the reason that 365s were gauge cleared for more than just the E&G suggests that they will end up covering what were planned to stay as diesel routes pending the completion of 385 deliveries to cover for the delayed HSTs, but that another difficult period is on the way, hence the request to operate unmodified stock from December.

It looks like 365s will now easily cover the 170s going south in July and there should almost certainly be enough 385s in service by November to cover those too (if not moving 365s off the core E&G route as well) - this should really be the situation by mid-July but training/mileage accumulation/rostering will all need to settle down. December (or "after October") should also bring electrification of Stirling/Dunblane/Alloa (SDA) and could use 365/385 depending upon availability (was SDA one of the gauge-cleared routes for 365s?), freeing up DMUs. It's just whether there's enough electrification in November to free up enough DMUs to cover for those leaving and the "missing" HSTs... SDA, Grahamston and possibly Shotts services would be the likely candidates.

I've been critical about some operational decisions, but I'm actually pretty impressed with the part of Abellio Scotrail looking after all of this - they are juggling rolling stock procurement/testing, refurbishment delays, electrification projects, drivers, guards and training and pretty much managing to keep the show on the road.

 

[The_Engineer]

My understanding of the stock situation around 385s/365s/170s/HSTs...

• 385s with windscreen mods are passed for passenger service and a small number (less than 10) have had the mods. These are likely to enter service in the next couple of weeks. Remaining units will be modded but this will probably happen fairly quickly.
• 10 365s (as of a couple of hours ago) are in Scotland and 6 or 8 of those are modded and good for service - they are expected to stay here for a year.
• There were a total of 16 170s to go to Northern - 4 in March, 6 in July and 6 in November.
• 4x modified HST sets were to be available for the May timetable change, this didn't happen and Scotrail have apparently asked about using unmodified stock from December

A great summary!! Another factor in the lack of diesel department and E&G short trains was the loss of some 158s to Northern too.....

 

[47802]

I'm sure I saw a Scotrail MK3 with what looked like finished sliding doors (I initially thought it was a XC, but looking online it wasn't XC livery) being shunted around Wabtec 2 weeks ago, so they are making progress.

Yeh about 1 train a year, maybe they could ramp up production to about 2 this year, so that they would all have one each

 

[a_c_skinner]

As stated before, it’s a training run. Not in p

Yes, sorry. Actually it is still there and I suspect it hasn’t moved all day.

 

[47271]

There's half cocked HSTs on training running around all over the place in Scotland at the moment.

An HST on an Inverness to Edinburgh service, delayed or otherwise, I wish...

 

[JohnR]

I've been critical about some operational decisions, but I'm actually pretty impressed with the part of Abellio Scotrail looking after all of this - they are juggling rolling stock procurement/testing, refurbishment delays, electrification projects, drivers, guards and training and pretty much managing to keep the show on the road.

Yes ScotRail are to be appluaded at getting the 365s to help them out. Theres other TOCs who would just sit back, blame it all on the late deliveries and sod it.

 

[Journeyman]

Yes ScotRail are to be appluaded at getting the 365s to help them out. Theres other TOCs who would just sit back, blame it all on the late deliveries and sod it.

I'm certainly quite impressed by how quickly and smoothly they've got them into service, and how well it's gone so far - I'm regularly riding a 365 to work now, and they're belting along the E&G nicely. I wonder how much Hitachi had to contribute in terms of cash/expertise?