ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[connormill]

The 1740 glasgow to aberdeen was a 4 car 158 today , the front two being ex alphaline seats . I believe an afternoon Edinburgh to Aberdeen is a single 158 .

The 1741 certainly can't be as I'm booked in carriage B. Surely a single 158 will be packed to the brim on an intercity service like Edinburgh to Aberdeen? and if not, a 4/5 car HST will be like a ghost town on that service.

 

[aar0]

Vaguely related, I saw a GWR HST heading north at Newark North Gate today, at about 1730. I assume it was en route for wabtec?

 

[CJSwan]

The 1741 certainly can't be as I'm booked in carriage B. Surely a single 158 will be packed to the brim on an intercity service like Edinburgh to Aberdeen? and if not, a 4/5 car HST will be like a ghost town on that service.

Yes and yes.

Just on Thursday the 1740 Glasgow to Aberdeen was a four car (no reservations).

There’s at least one (although I’m certain it’s two) Edinburgh to Aberdeen and return that is made up of a single class 158. I’ve been on the 1205 ex Aberdeen twice, both on Wednesdays, as far as Stonehaven and it has left Aberdeen with people in the vestibules. I think this was supposed to be one of the first to switch over to HST working.

 

[385001]

Out of interest, what could be the reason for the delayed delivery? Someone from ScotRail seeing something is not up to scratch?

 

[Northhighland]

The 1740 glasgow to aberdeen was a 4 car 158 today , the front two being ex alphaline seats . I believe an afternoon Edinburgh to Aberdeen is a single 158 .

A single 158 on that route is a joke. Would be absolute mayhem. Be much more sensible to short form a Edinburgh Glasgow train but that is not where priorities lie in Scotland. E/G is always priority even though you will have 15 mins max to wait for the next train. Instead herd passengers on an inadequate train for hours. My comment about nationalism was meant in jest, every thing that goes wrong in Scotland is blamed on England by nationalists.

 

[Rail Blues]

A single 158 on that route is a joke. Would be absolute mayhem. Be much more sensible to short form a Edinburgh Glasgow train but that is not where priorities lie in Scotland. E/G is always priority even though you will have 15 mins max to wait for the next train. Instead herd passengers on an inadequate train for hours. My comment about nationalism was meant in jest, every thing that goes wrong in Scotland is blamed on England by nationalists.

Not that different from the lazy and complacent Scottish Labour Party who treated Scotland like their own private fiefdom and who would turn up at election time in housing schemes yell 'Tories' and then be safely back in the West End by teatime.

 

[Journeyman]

The 'English cast-offs' argument might not be valid, given the modernisation, but it's very important. There's a strong public perception that Scotland is at the back of the queue for any improvements, and refurbished 40-year old trains reinforce it. That the refurbishment is taking longer and costing more is even worse, as clearly that shows that not only are they English cast-offs, but they're worn-out too!

Nonsense of course, but popular nonsense.

A lot of nationalist opinion in Scotland is fuelled by popular nonsense, unfortunately.

The first time one of these breaks down - and it won't take long given the GWR HST MTIN is only about 5000, half the level of any other HSTs - expect the more nationalist bits of the media and internet to go ballistic.

 

[marks87]

A single 158 on that route is a joke. Would be absolute mayhem. Be much more sensible to short form a Edinburgh Glasgow train but that is not where priorities lie in Scotland. E/G is always priority even though you will have 15 mins max to wait for the next train. Instead herd passengers on an inadequate train for hours. My comment about nationalism was meant in jest, every thing that goes wrong in Scotland is blamed on England by nationalists.

Short-forming an E-G train wouldn't be much use to Edinburgh-Aberdeen anymore.

Well, not for most of the journeys anyway. There might be one that's still diesel but it doesn't seem to be as common anymore now that the 385s are being dripped into service.

If there is a shortage of units while we wait for the HSTs, then might it be practical to have the 68+Mk2s run around Fife all-day rather than just the peaks?

 

[Rail Blues]

A lot of nationalist opinion in Scotland is fuelled by popular nonsense, unfortunately.

The first time one of these breaks down - and it won't take long given the GWR HST MTIN is only about 5000, half the level of any other HSTs - expect the more nationalist bits of the media and internet to go ballistic.

I'm not apologist for the Snp or a die hard advocate of independence , but if the HSTs turn out to be less reliable than the trains they replace, then the media - which is dominated by unionist leaning publications let us not forget - have every right to start asking extremely awkward questions.

 

[Southsider]

I'm not apologist for the Snp or a die hard advocate of independence , but if the HSTs turn out to be less reliable than the trains they replace, then the media - which is dominated by unionist leaning publications let us not forget - have every right to start asking extremely awkward questions.

Were getting very political here but let's not forget that the Scottish Government endorsed Abellio's plans by appointing them to run the franchise, they presumably did due diligence and knew how old the trains were.

 

[Indigo Soup]

I'm not apologist for the Snp or a die hard advocate of independence , but if the HSTs turn out to be less reliable than the trains they replace, then the media - which is dominated by unionist leaning publications let us not forget - have every right to start asking extremely awkward questions.

Asking awkward questions about the reliability of trains is fair enough, and would be justified.

The political spin that would come with it, though, is extremely unlikely to be helpful. About the only saving grace is that if instead of HSTs new stock were ordered, the political spin would be about forcing unproven, unreliable trains on Scotland whilst England got to keep the old, reliable ones. There's a train of nationalist thought that will always find something negative, then blame the English for it.

 

[Highland37]

A single 158 on that route is a joke. Would be absolute mayhem. Be much more sensible to short form a Edinburgh Glasgow train but that is not where priorities lie in Scotland. E/G is always priority even though you will have 15 mins max to wait for the next train. Instead herd passengers on an inadequate train for hours. My comment about nationalism was meant in jest, every thing that goes wrong in Scotland is blamed on England by nationalists.

I really wish you could drop your lazy assumptions and misnomers and keep on topic. Please start a thread entitled "here is the evidence for everything going wrong in Scotland being blamed on England". Personally I think you are absolutely wrong but would rather adopt a lazy assumption as it means you don't need to look at the facts.

 

[Highland37]

Were getting very political here but let's not forget that the Scottish Government endorsed Abellio's plans by appointing them to run the franchise, they presumably did due diligence and knew how old the trains were.

They must have done and there is no way they could have known that Wabtec would have been so far behind at this stage. Or are you suggesting there was clear evidence that Wabtec would not deliver and that was ignored? Like the 385s, this is neither fault of Abellio or the Scottish Government.

 

[theblackwatch]

A lot of nationalist opinion in Scotland is fuelled by popular nonsense, unfortunately.

The first time one of these breaks down - and it won't take long given the GWR HST MTIN is only about 5000, half the level of any other HSTs - expect the more nationalist bits of the media and internet to go ballistic.

I've not heard of any reliability problems with the GWR 'GTi' set in the West Country. The only problem seems to be the length of time it's taking to convert them.

 

[InOban]

Unfortunately we don't have any insider who can tell us why yesterday's delivery was aborted at the last minute. I wonder whether the Abellio staff who went to inspect it before delivery found some work that needed snagging.

 

[Stopper]

A single 158 on that route is a joke. Would be absolute mayhem. Be much more sensible to short form a Edinburgh Glasgow train but that is not where priorities lie in Scotland. E/G is always priority even though you will have 15 mins max to wait for the next train. Instead herd passengers on an inadequate train for hours. My comment about nationalism was meant in jest, every thing that goes wrong in Scotland is blamed on England by nationalists.

I agree it’s a joke but shortforming an E-G service would be even worse. I’ve been on a Class 385 7-coach during the day with people standing. That’s how busy the route is.

 

[haggishunter]

A lot of the political leaning comments in this thread are back to front to say the least as the MSM is overwhelmingly unionist!

So while sections of the printed press has been trying to get the '40 year old English cast offs' line to stick and can't wait for the first HST breakdown to cause chaos on a single track section of line, it's certainly not about nationalist rage, it's because the media can't wait to print the #SNPBad headlines!

 

[Southsider]

They must have done and there is no way they could have known that Wabtec would have been so far behind at this stage. Or are you suggesting there was clear evidence that Wabtec would not deliver and that was ignored? Like the 385s, this is neither fault of Abellio or the Scottish Government.

I’m not talking about the delay, that was unforeseen. My point is that the age of the trains was know and accepted by all parties. To now claim “English cast offs” would be disingenuous.

 

[Highland37]

A lot of the political leaning comments in this thread are back to front to say the least as the MSM is overwhelmingly unionist!

So while sections of the printed press has been trying to get the '40 year old English cast offs' line to stick and can't wait for the first HST breakdown to cause chaos on a single track section of line, it's certainly not about nationalist rage, it's because the media can't wait to print the #SNPBad headlines!

Exactly and I am tired of the constant attempts to make these threads political to satisfy the paranoia of some people.

The 385s were late - no one "blamed it on the English"
The HSTs are late - no one is blaming it on England
Two Calmac ferries are late - no one is blaming it on England.
Edinburgh trams fiasco - no one blamed it on the English
A9 dualling is very slow - no one is blaming....

And so on. It's just an ignorance of the wider world and the legitimate idea of self-determination that drives this British Nationalist paranoia. Grow up!

 

[David M]

The 1740 glasgow to aberdeen was a 4 car 158 today , the front two being ex alphaline seats . I believe an afternoon Edinburgh to Aberdeen is a single 158 .

Don't know if it's everyday but the 1205 from Aberdeen to Waverley on Monday of this week was a 2 coach 158. Given how busy a 3 car 170 is, I was astonished but, fortunately, got a seat.

 

[Rail Blues]

So while sections of the printed press has been trying to get the '40 year old English cast offs' line to stick and can't wait for the first HST breakdown to cause chaos on a single track section of line, it's certainly not about nationalist rage, it's because the media can't wait to print the #SNPBad headlines!

Yes Humza has taken a lot of heat for stuff that is outside his control from the media over the 385 debacle.

Whilst those in the media may have an axe to grind, it still doesn't make the hst project a good idea and gives hard-line unionists more fuel for their fire.

Also, the 40 year old English cast offs thing isn't an angle, it is a statement of fact. Which bit is fundamentally inaccurate?

 

[InOban]

Humza took, not has taken. He's no longer Transport Minister.

 

[superkev]

Not sure it's been posted here's a YouTube of 3 refurbished coaches being shunted at Doncaster. Look complete.

K

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Also, the 40 year old English cast offs thing isn't an angle, it is a statement of fact. Which bit is fundamentally inaccurate?

HSTs are not particularly English.
They were developed and built by GB-wide BR, for routes extending into Scotland, as were the IC225s, and for that matter the Pendolinos.
Scotland has always had a major role in operating all three fleets (and Voyagers and 350s).
The IEP is also a UK project, not an English one.
Cross-border services are specified by the UK-wide DfT, with full Scottish input, not by "English Rail".
Some of the "GWR" HST vehicles probably ran originally for decades to Scotland on the ECML anyway, before electrification.

If we are into cast-offs, Northern is now taking delivery of Scotrail's cast off 156/158/170s.

 

[TheMuttley]

If we are into cast-offs, Northern is now taking delivery of Scotrail's cast off 156/158/170s

Perhaps that decisively puts the "cast-offs" discussion to bed and we can finally get back to discussing where that mystical first complete set has disappeared to...

 

[DackandBlecker]

I agree it’s a joke but shortforming an E-G service would be even worse. I’ve been on a Class 385 7-coach during the day with people standing. That’s how busy the route is.

No it wouldn't.
There's another one in 15 minutes. And there's 2 decent, and a third alternative route too.
It's a sub 1 hour journey.

Central Belt to Aberdeen is hourly, and lasts longer, and has no alternatives.

E&G is the only show in town to the railway though.

 

[Highland37]

I’m not talking about the delay, that was unforeseen. My point is that the age of the trains was know and accepted by all parties. To now claim “English cast offs” would be disingenuous.

Fully agree. I amn't aware of anyone claiming so. Certain Unionist papers have hinted at it but there is no mass blame game as others would have you believe.

It appears that Wabtec don't have the capacity. No conspiracy.

 

[507021]

Does anyone know which 43s have transferred to ScotRail so far?

Thanks.

 

[43096]

Does anyone know which 43s have transferred to ScotRail so far?

Thanks.

ScotRail have the following on lease: 43003/012/021/026/031-033/036/037/125-128/130/132/134/135/139-143/145/146/148-150/152/163/164/168/169/179/183.
34 down, 20 to go!

 

[boabt]

A very weird theme on here trying to paint ‘nationalists’ in a certain light.
I’d wager 99% of ‘nationalists’ know that transport is devolved, and therefore, blaming the English for crap trains is pure raging mental.
The same couldn’t be said for Labour leader Richard Leonard who twice in two weeks had to be reminded by Sturgeon that Network Rail wasn’t devolved when he was having a good ol moan.
Back on topic, as a regular user of the Edinburgh-Aberdeen line, I’m really looking forward to the 40 yo cast-offs. And I say that as somebody perfectly happy with the 170s