ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Clansman]

Cycle storage is specified at a "minimum 2 cycles per unit" in the invitation to tender, and as "a minimum of two bicycles in a dedicated area adjacent to an entrance vestibule" in the franchise agreement.

Set as the bare minimum requirement for IC rolling stock.

 

[CEN60]

Are there any HST services diagrams up and down the Highland mainline yet that are reliably booked as HST's? If not, the most regular ones would be handy to know. Either classic or refurbished sets please.

The 07.07 GLQ - INV is "normally" a classic HST (although I understand there were some substitutions the other week) RTT shows it as an "HST"

 

[Goldromans]

I believe this is two firsts today: first refurb between Inverness and Edinburgh and first refurb from Inverness on a weekday (do correct me if I’m wrong though!): https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1166949961889718273?s=21

 

[InvHst]

I believe this is two firsts today: first refurb between Inverness and Edinburgh and first refurb from Inverness on a weekday (do correct me if I’m wrong though!): https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1166949961889718273?s=21

That record sadly gonna have to wait Ha21 failed in Edinburgh before departure so it's a 170

 

[Goldromans]

That record sadly gonna have to wait Ha21 failed in Edinburgh before departure so it's a 170

The reliability of the HST’s has been absolutely appalling. Do we know what the main causes are?

 

[Railperf]

The reliability of the HST’s has been absolutely appalling. Do we know what the main causes are?

Latest Modern Railways magazine claims GWR Castle sets are much more reliable . But it isn't clear whether the Scotrail figures are refurbished and 'classic' set figures combined. There were no figures for GWR 2+4 'classic' sets.

 

[Northhighland]

On the 9;45 from Inverness to Edinburgh, supposed to be an HST, a 170, no seat reservations, train packed people standing at various points on the journey, luggage everywhere. Usual mess. Toilet problems on leaving Inverness. train was delayed by 20 mins by Aviemore due to hating for trains to cross, never picked up the time arrived in Edinburgh late. On LNER to London now, missed my original train but there were at least three HST refurbs sitting in sidings at either haymarket or Criagentinny. Three classics at Haymarket, two in Inverness. So I take it staffing issues were affecting Inverness workings not reliability.

Pretty poor anyway. Doesn't seem to be any better despite the promises that it would after the Aberdeen line reopened.

 

[CEN60]

On the 9;45 from Inverness to Edinburgh, supposed to be an HST, a 170, no seat reservations, train packed people standing at various points on the journey, luggage everywhere. Usual mess. Toilet problems on leaving Inverness. train was delayed by 20 mins by Aviemore due to hating for trains to cross, never picked up the time arrived in Edinburgh late. On LNER to London now, missed my original train but there were at least three HST refurbs sitting in sidings at either haymarket or Criagentinny. Three classics at Haymarket, two in Inverness. So I take it staffing issues were affecting Inverness workings not reliability.

Pretty poor anyway. Doesn't seem to be any better despite the promises that it would after the Aberdeen line reopened.

Was the same a couple of weeks ago when I traveled on that service - so busy they couldn't even get the trolley on it! Irony was I had to change at Perth to get back to Glasgow - Classic came and swallowed up all those that were waiting to change! The whole situation is shocking - yet Scotrail "trumpet" every day on twitter about which services will be Refurb HSTs - a very small percentage I would wager of all the services that run Glasgow Queen St / Edinburgh to Aberdeen & Inverness - someone needs to take them to task - but they seem to be getting away with it! I shudder to think what the American tourists who had to stand all the way from Inverness to Perth thought of the journey!

 

[John Bishop]

9.45 ex Inverness is booked 170 now. 8.45 to Glasgow is HST most days.

 

[CEN60]

9.45 ex Inverness is booked 170 now. 8.45 to Glasgow is HST most days.

Sadly the 8.45 you mention to Glasgow leaves 4 mins or so before the train arrives from Kyle - can anyone explain to me how that makes any sense! Sort it out Scotrail!

 

[43096]

The reliability of the HST’s has been absolutely appalling. Do we know what the main causes are?

ScotRail’s unfamiliarity with them and a chronic long term attitude of “run to fail” by GWR.

 

[Northhighland]

ScotRail’s unfamiliarity with them and a chronic long term attitude of “run to fail” by GWR.

Excuse only lasts so long.

 

[43096]

Excuse only lasts so long.

Shame the tedious responses don’t.

 

[InOban]

I see that there's a path from Haymarket to Doncaster wabtec tomorrow. Power cars, I assume.

 

[Northhighland]

Shame the tedious responses don’t.

1 million passengers can’t all be wrong

 

[Highland37]

ScotRail’s unfamiliarity with them and a chronic long term attitude of “run to fail” by GWR.

What is it, specifically, that Scotrail are not doing that more experienced HST operators are or were doing? Please be specific.

 

[43096]

What is it, specifically, that Scotrail are not doing that more experienced HST operators are or were doing? Please be specific.

It’s like anything “new”, it takes time to become familiar with it: a new phone for example. In ScotRail’s case the depots haven’t maintained locos for years and much of the knowledge of diesel-electric traction will have gone. Add in that the GWR fleet was the least reliable of all HST fleets for the last decade or so, and ScotRail was always likely to struggle.

 

[Highland37]

It’s like anything “new”, it takes time to become familiar with it: a new phone for example. In ScotRail’s case the depots haven’t maintained locos for years and much of the knowledge of diesel-electric traction will have gone. Add in that the GWR fleet was the least reliable of all HST fleets for the last decade or so, and ScotRail was always likely to struggle.

Yes I understand your reasoning but note that you haven't provided any supporting evidence. What are other HST operators are doing that Scotrail isn't? Specifically. Or is this a theory?

 

[GusB]

Yes I understand your reasoning but note that you haven't provided any supporting evidence. What are other HST operators are doing that Scotrail isn't? Specifically. Or is this a theory?

I'm not sure what supporting evidence you need. Other operators have had HSTs for years and their drivers and maintenance teams will have had a significant amount of time to become accustomed to the foibles of older traction. I'd hazard a guess that the only staff within Scotrail who were familiar with HSTs are perhaps those who were originally with British Rail, and I'd imagine that there will be few of those left.

 

[dmkc]

There was a refurb set sitting in the yard at Dundee (for most of I think) yesterday.
Was it there for training or had it gone pop at some point?

 

[RLBH]

Looks like a pair of power cars heading down from Haymarket to Doncaster at the moment:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R01543/2019/08/30/advanced

Presumably that means that the next refurbished set is almost ready and will be coming up before too long.

 

[mr-magoo]

I noticed ScotRail are selling a speedometer on the bay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/InterCity-high-speed-train-speedometer-display/133154600697

 

[Railperf]

Anymore sightings of classic or refurb HSTs on the Highland mainline - and which services diagrams they were?

 

[InOban]

I'm not sure what supporting evidence you need. Other operators have had HSTs for years and their drivers and maintenance teams will have had a significant amount of time to become accustomed to the foibles of older traction. I'd hazard a guess that the only staff within Scotrail who were familiar with HSTs are perhaps those who were originally with British Rail, and I'd imagine that there will be few of those left.

I understood that a number of experienced staff had transferred from Craigentinny to Haymarket.

 

[Highland37]

I'm not sure what supporting evidence you need. Other operators have had HSTs for years and their drivers and maintenance teams will have had a significant amount of time to become accustomed to the foibles of older traction. I'd hazard a guess that the only staff within Scotrail who were familiar with HSTs are perhaps those who were originally with British Rail, and I'd imagine that there will be few of those left.

Yes and I understand that reasoning. The point I am making is that beyond setting out a principle, there appears to be little evidence to suggest that it is true.

So, to support the idea that Scotrail has less experience on HSTs and that is impacting reliability, can anyone who thinks this, provide any specific information on what they are supposedly not doing that other HST operators are?

 

[alangla]

I noticed ScotRail are selling a speedometer on the bay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/InterCity-high-speed-train-speedometer-display/133154600697

It’s one way to get rid of the ATP equipment I guess.

They appear to have run a poll recently to select a colour for painting overhauled engines. Pink won
https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1166974766357630977?s=21

2 points from that video- doing engine changes outside will be fun in the winter, could they not have fitted a crane in one of the sheds? Also, what is it that’s manouvering the engineless power car under the crane?
Assume the video was made at Haymarket.
There’s also a team lineup of the fitters with the pink engine on their Twitter home page

 

[47271]

Anymore sightings of classic or refurb HSTs on the Highland mainline - and which services diagrams they were?

Precious few at the moment as far as I can see.

I can tell you that today's 1333 Edinburgh-Inverness is 2x158. Which is better than 1x158 I suppose.

 

[Esker-pades]

1 million passengers can’t all be wrong

As someone who closely follows Brexit, a large number of people can certainly be wrong.

 

[Clansman]

Refurb currently heading through Luncarty working 1H13 to Inverness. 1A73 a single 158 to Aberdeen, and a 170 to Glasgow on 1T32. Both swapped from HSTs.

Small feeling of being back in January 2019 about the place today with all these short forms!

 

[ChrisC]

P

Precious few at the moment as far as I can see.

I can tell you that today's 1333 Edinburgh-Inverness is 2x158. Which is better than 1x158 I suppose.

I’m travelling up from Nottingham to Inverness on Monday. I’m not really bothered about the type of train but would prefer it not to be too overcrowded and with no problem in getting a seat and room for my case.
I haven’t reserved any seats as my route and times are flexible. Would I be best heading for Edinburgh to get the 1333 to Inverness or would I be better heading for Glasgow and getting the 1508 from Queen Street to Inverness?