ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Clansman]

Precious few at the moment as far as I can see.

I can tell you that today's 1333 Edinburgh-Inverness is 2x158. Which is better than 1x158 I suppose.

A double 158 on the HML is better than a classic or a refurb some would argue.

 

[Highland37]

A double 158 on the HML is better than a classic or a refurb some would argue.

Who? The ancient vs the ancient on a cramped and noisy train is not a great advert for the railway.

 

[Clansman]

Standard class ticket holders, tourists with heaps of luggage, groups with bikes, groups of wheelchair users, and those who otherwise would be standing if it were a refurb.

 

[Highland37]

I don't think they would. They would recognise a 158 as noisy, cramped and too small. They are also filthy.

It's a false comparison and the only reason anyone is making it is that Wabtec have failed to deliver and ScotRail have failed to manage it. There should be a lot more bike spaces for example.

 

[Goldromans]

I’m travelling up from Nottingham to Inverness on Monday. I’m not really bothered about the type of train but would prefer it not to be too overcrowded and with no problem in getting a seat and room for my case.
I haven’t reserved any seats as my route and times are flexible. Would I be best heading for Edinburgh to get the 1333 to Inverness or would I be better heading for Glasgow and getting the 1508 from Queen Street to Inverness?

Personally, I'd join the LNER 1200 Kings Cross-Inverness at York.

 

[Morayshire]

Are there any HST services diagrams up and down the Highland mainline yet that are reliably booked as HST's? If not, the most regular ones would be handy to know. Either classic or refurbished sets please.

It would be handy to find out the same info for the Aberdeen to/from Glasgow or Edinburgh diagrams as HSTs seem to have become endangered going south from Aberdeen after 6pm since the line to Inverurie reopened

 

[ChrisC]

Personally, I'd join the LNER 1200 Kings Cross-Inverness at York.

That was my original plan but I would really like to arrive in Inverness a little earlier and have time to settle into my hotel and go out and get something to eat before dark. That’s why I was now planning on getting the 1333 from Edinburgh.

 

[47271]

A double 158 on the HML is better than a classic or a refurb some would argue.

It's a good point. Even though people were standing on the train, there were one or two empty seats and, for me, I had a table in a way that I would've probably had to sit in First for on a classic.

The units were clean enough, and certainly in better condition than any Scotrail classic HST I've travelled in. The aircon was either broken or had been overwhelmed by the inbound run on 0945 Inverness-Edinburgh, so it was very muggy until the conductor unlocked the emergency vents. But then I'm finding the aircon poor on the HSTs at the moment.

So, yes, it could've been worse and would've been more overcrowded as a refurbed HST. I think most of us agree that a four coach HST is inadequate for this, one of the week's busiest northbound HML services.

That was my original plan but I would really like to arrive in Inverness a little earlier and have time to settle into my hotel and go out and get something to eat before dark. That’s why I was now planning on getting the 1333 from Edinburgh.

Both of those trains are always very crowded, although maybe less so on a Monday. If you get the 1333 whatever you do, don't try to join it at Haymarket. It usually goes from P20 at Waverley, so you can easily beat the crowds to that if you play your cards right. The incoming set is the preceding arrival from Inverness, so keep your eyes peeled, watch RTT, and make yourself nimble, and you'll at least be able to board ahead of 99% of other passengers who'll be floundering between the main concourse and across the bridge.

 

[ChrisC]

Both of those trains are always very crowded, although maybe less so on a Monday. If you get the 1333 whatever you do, don't try to join it at Haymarket. It usually goes from P20 at Waverley, so you can easily beat the crowds to that if you play your cards right. The incoming set is the preceding arrival from Inverness, so keep your eyes peeled, watch RTT, and make yourself nimble, and you'll at least be able to board ahead of 99% of other passengers who'll be floundering between the main concourse and across the bridge.

Thanks for that information. I am hoping to arrive in Edinburgh by about 12.30 and so time to get something to eat and then get to the correct platform in plenty of time before most other passengers.

 

[Clansman]

I don't think they would. They would recognise a 158 as noisy, cramped and too small. They are also filthy.

It's a false comparison and the only reason anyone is making it is that Wabtec have failed to deliver and ScotRail have failed to manage it. There should be a lot more bike spaces for example.

Each to their own. But what's false about it? When doubled, they are the most all round suitable rolling stock for the busiest of HML services over anything ScotRail have at the moment - and that includes the HST refurbs.

 

[route:oxford]

P


I’m travelling up from Nottingham to Inverness on Monday. I’m not really bothered about the type of train but would prefer it not to be too overcrowded and with no problem in getting a seat and room for my case.
I haven’t reserved any seats as my route and times are flexible. Would I be best heading for Edinburgh to get the 1333 to Inverness or would I be better heading for Glasgow and getting the 1508 from Queen Street to Inverness?

Grab a Loganair from Nottingham airport?

12:00 arrived 13:35. From £108 return.

 

[Highland37]

Each to their own. But what's false about it? When doubled, they are the most all round suitable rolling stock for the busiest of HML services over anything ScotRail have at the moment - and that includes the HST refurbs.

Yes I agree with that. All of what Scotrail has is pretty awful for the HML. When I go abroad in various countries, you see a much better and newer set of rolling stock.

 

[Northhighland]

As someone who closely follows Brexit, a large number of people can certainly be wrong.

On Brexit I grant your point. Hard to argue. However with Scotrail it just keeps bungling along never gets better and is always jam tomorrow Sadly though tomorrow never comes and we are now seeing passengers going elsewhere.

 

[Highland37]

My inlaws came to Inverness last night on the bus. It's a no brainer when it only costs a pound but they are not keen on the train for obvious reasons. Now my 11 year old wants to go to Glasgow to visit relatives and her mum would rather send her on the bus "as it is more reliable and more pleasant".

The Inverness Courier was leading yesterday with a big picture of a packed 170 and blaming Scotrail for the shambles and them blaming Wabtec.

Scotrail’s plans to introduce high-speed trains to Inverness have gone off the rails.

The Dutch-run rail provider has admitted they will be delayed until May 2020 at the earliest – at least a year later than promised.

It had proposed faster, hourly services from Aberdeen and the central belt by May this year, replacing the ageing, overcrowded three-carriage Class 170 fleet.

But only seven of 26 refurbished high-speed trains (HST) – officially the world’s fastest diesels – have so far been delivered by suppliers Wabtec.

For more see the latest edition of the Inverness Courier.

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk...ail-trains-delayed-by-at-least-a-year-182364/

 

[47271]

Can I ask a quick question on the refurbs?

Who's paying for them, presumably the leasing company and Scotrail leases the stock at whatever rate was agreed at the outset, yes?

It's just that I heard a strange rumour this morning that the money's run out and they can't afford to do any more refurbs, and this is partly why the programme is so late and slow. That can't be right, because they'd still have to lease stock to provide the service? There would be little financial advantage to Scotrail to slow or stop work at Wabtec, right?

It's got to be nonsense hasn't it?

 

[GLC]

Can I ask a quick question on the refurbs?

Who's paying for them, presumably the leasing company and Scotrail leases the stock at whatever rate was agreed at the outset, yes?

It's just that I heard a strange rumour this morning that the money's run out and they can't afford to do any more refurbs, and this is partly why the programme is so late and slow. That can't be right, because they'd still have to lease stock to provide the service? There would be little financial advantage to Scotrail to slow or stop work at Wabtec, right?

It's got to be nonsense hasn't it?

Based purely on earlier postings in this thread, the MK3s that arrived at Wabtec have been in significantly worse structural condition than expected (and therefore estimated and costed for I assume). I wouldn’t surprise me if there is some financial back and forth if so many units require more work than original planned

 

[Northhighland]

My inlaws came to Inverness last night on the bus. It's a no brainer when it only costs a pound but they are not keen on the train for obvious reasons. Now my 11 year old wants to go to Glasgow to visit relatives and her mum would rather send her on the bus "as it is more reliable and more pleasant".

The Inverness Courier was leading yesterday with a big picture of a packed 170 and blaming Scotrail for the shambles and them blaming Wabtec.



https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk...ail-trains-delayed-by-at-least-a-year-182364/

Sadly hard to argue with your families views. It is a disgrace. The refurb is a bit of a worn excuse. There are enough classics available to get the service running.

Truth is they can’t get the training g done and can’t keep the trains running.

 

[47271]

Based purely on earlier postings in this thread, the MK3s that arrived at Wabtec have been in significantly worse structural condition than expected (and therefore estimated and costed for I assume). I wouldn’t surprise me if there is some financial back and forth if so many units require more work than original planned

I'm sure you're right, but that isn't quite my question.

The suggestion that's been made to me today is that, because of the well known larger financial challenges at Scotrail, as well as costs arising from the technical difficulties you describe, they've slowed the project and are going to end refurbishments.

I'm saying that the claim doesn't sound right to me because it isn't Scotrail who's paying directly for the refurbs.

 

[GrimShady]

I'm sure you're right, but that isn't quite my question.

The suggestion that's been made to me today is that, because of the well known larger financial challenges at Scotrail, as well as costs arising from the technical difficulties you describe, they've slowed the project and are going to end refurbishments.

I'm saying that the claim doesn't sound right to me because it isn't Scotrail who's paying directly for the refurbs.

If that's the case it's very, very poor. Abellio have literally failed at pretty much everything.

 

[Goldromans]

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk...ail-trains-delayed-by-at-least-a-year-182364/

Also note the new revised date of May 2020.

 

[GrimShady]

Also note the new revised date of May 2020.

So much for the end of the year promise, which we all knew was balls anyway.

 

[John Bishop]

0 refurb sets in operation today.

 

[Pete_uk]

Anyone think 68+mk5s would have been a better longer term option?

 

[Steven_G]

Anyone think 68+mk5s would have been a better longer term option?

All down to cost I suppose. But yes, I agree

 

[Highland37]

0 refurb sets in operation today.

What a great decision it has turned out to be using ancient rolling stock for the Premier service.

What have the refurbished sets been doing?

I am writing this from Aviemore and just heard a train going past. It sounded like an MTU.

 

[Speed43125]

I don't suppose eventually using VTEC/LNER coaches as the basis for refurb eventually would be possible will it? given that stuff, from what i've seen out my window, is far less rusty (especially on the roof) than the classic GW Mk 3s. and given how long delays are going on, at least one of their HSTs is going to be withdrawn, before the last refurb for scotrail is done.

 

[Railperf]

Having sampled the 755's i am tempted to say they may have been a better option for Scotrail than refurbished HSTs. The 755s acceleration is better too - at least in 4-car formation.

 

[marks87]

Reading about the condition of the ex-GWR Mk3s, would the leasing company have penalised GWR in any way when they took them back?

Surely any leasing contract would stipulate the condition that the vehicles have to be returned in, and it would be somewhat surprising if the specified condition is what we're hearing.

 

[GrimShady]

I'm all for continuation of the refurbs however in retrospect Mk5s were probably the way to go.

I haven't sampled Class 755 yet, I do like the idea of a separate PC module keeping away dreadful underfloor engines.

 

[ossy5190]

What are the issues preventing the refurbs being used? Faults/maintenence/staff training? Still seems to be precious few in service.