ScotRail reducing Sunday timetables from this week

[cf111]

Your not alone here I dont think - seats are coming hard to come by on many now with the 14:40 from Inverness being particularly bad. Without going too badly off topic and whilst Im aware many buses are subsidised isnt it about time Stagecoach took this chaotic Sunday goldmine seriusly and ran another journey?

There's four buses each way on a Sunday, including a late one which leaves Thurso at 1900 through the summer. You're right and there's no doubt they're coining it in at the moment.

 

[me123]

Well, it may be that we'll soon be longing for the reduced timetable. The unions have threatened industrial action, so there's a possibility of no Sunday trains at all.

Come on, fellow passengers, let's kidnap the heads of the unions and heads of Abellio, lock them in a room, and don't let them out until they work this one out

 

[Blindtraveler]

Im with the drivers and after
Scotraildriver
s post, guards too! I can now see whats being offered is totally inappropriate. Sort it out Scotfail

 

[Mainly Coaches]

I can't believe Abellio weren't aware of the possible issue of Sunday Rosters when bidding for a multimillion pound franchise. They surely must have taken problems with this into account when pricing their bid?

 

[Chrism20]

I can't believe Abellio weren't aware of the possible issue of Sunday Rosters when bidding for a multimillion pound franchise. They surely must have taken problems with this into account when pricing their bid?

Well we have been told Abellio weren't the cheapest and that it was quality over budget.

Quality doesn't extend to a Sunday it would seem.

I said earlier I agreed with the drivers and after scotraildriver gave some figures I agree even more.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Good to know I aint the only one on the drivers side. I rarely go out the house on a Sunday these days so resist, work to rule, strike etc all you like foalks, Il sit on my Sofa and cheer you on

 

[Starmill]

Pathetic! Who publishes a full 'Reduced Timetable' because of their own deficiencies at running the train service? I hope there are severe penalties written into the contract for this. The people of Scotland deserve infinitely better, Abellio. You should be ashamed.

 

[CC 72100]

Pathetic! Who publishes a full 'Reduced Timetable' because of their own deficiencies at running the train service?

Whilst the situation isn't great, is it not a lot better that people are aware of the alterations in advance?

Much better than turning up on the day to a departure board with a list of cancellations. Communication is key.

 

[me123]

Well we have been told Abellio weren't the cheapest and that it was quality over budget.

Quality doesn't extend to a Sunday it would seem.

Let's give Abellio some credit here - the blame should actually lie squarely with whichever operator decided that Sunday working should be optional in the first place (which might even be back as far as BR?). I can't think of any other industry that tries to provide a service on a Sunday without any staff.

 

[MCR247]

Let's give Abellio some credit here - the blame should actually lie squarely with whichever operator decided that Sunday working should be optional in the first place (which might even be back as far as BR?).

I think most (if not all) of the Sunday working issues up and down the network were inherited from BR.

Or maybe its down to our private, fragmented railway? (Sorry if this has been mentioned already in the thread

 

[scotraildriver]

Let's give Abellio some credit here - the blame should actually lie squarely with whichever operator decided that Sunday working should be optional in the first place (which might even be back as far as BR?). I can't think of any other industry that tries to provide a service on a Sunday without any staff.

Sundays are NOT solely staffed by volunteers. All staff have rostered Sundays which,although paid as overtime, they MUST work (or find someone else to do it) or they will be disciplined the same as any other day. The problem that we have is that the company wants to run more and more services, so have increased rostered Sundays to 1 in 2. But there are now more services than drivers so some volunteers are needed to work their days off. However we don't get a day off elsewhere as it's classed as overtime (enforced)so are getting less and less time off but more money. Had the company recruited enough new drivers they would help cover Sundays. But it's cheaper to force more work on existing people as it's non pensionable. And we have reached a point where people are unwilling to work any extra Sundays as they already work every second one. Hope this explains a bit as alot of people think Sundays are totally voluntary. They are not.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I was aware of this from your earlier post, but thanks for clearing it up anyway.

 

[Clarence Yard]

It really is rubbish bidding by Abellio. They knew the existing conditions of service and rosters when they bid and, not for the first time (GA), were over optimistic on what they could achieve. A pattern is beginning to emerge.

Regarding the earlier comment about getting them all in a room to negotiate a settlement. Verster and negotiation? Well, that's an interesting concept!

 

[Chrism20]

Let's give Abellio some credit here - the blame should actually lie squarely with whichever operator decided that Sunday working should be optional in the first place (which might even be back as far as BR?). I can't think of any other industry that tries to provide a service on a Sunday without any staff.

Yes the situation has been around since the days of BR. Give Abellio credit? Not a chance. As Clarence Yard says they knew what they were bidding for.

Would you give up twenty six specific days off knowing that you won't get another for it and the chance of getting a measly £500 bonus? And you may work all your Sunday's but the service falls below 90% and you don't even get that.

It really is rubbish bidding by Abellio. They knew the existing conditions of service and rosters when they bid and, not for the first time (GA), were over optimistic on what they could achieve. A pattern is beginning to emerge.

Definitely bad planning and the status quo (ie mandatory and voluntary OT) has been in place for at least twenty years and they have been involved in other rail franchises so it really shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[Blindtraveler]

It really is rubbish bidding by Abellio. They knew the existing conditions of service and rosters when they bid and, not for the first time (GA), were over optimistic on what they could achieve. A pattern is beginning to emerge.

Regarding the earlier comment about getting them all in a room to negotiate a settlement. Verster and negotiation? Well, that's an interesting concept!

Brilliant post there! Verster always seamed, ur, interesting in terms of a choice of MD and Abellio should indeed know a lot better. I hope Transport Scotland wernt blinded by the dazzling prospect of tourist pleasing seenic 158s and croud busting refurbed HSTs and therefor unable to see this problem looming large in front of them when specifying more and more services?

Likewise I would hope there industrial Relations within there other rail opperations were taken into account and that when this pritty big meal has been cleared up they will feed back, as a matter of curticy to DFT? Whilst Im sure we all agree that parts of the railway need modernising, dealing with staff of any grade from a part time train cleaner to a full time driver with about as much diplomacy as a rusty ironingboard aint modern and gets you knowhere! Given how much persuasion I take to leave the house on a Sunday, 1 in 2 ccompulsarry overtime aint acceptable and what there offering instead would be taken by me as downrite offencive!!

 

[scotraildriver]

Interestingly there are more pay talks today, but before that ASLEF and the RMT are meeting with transport Scotland to discuss the situation.Highly unusual! They don't normally want involved in such things.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Maybe TS are having a few guilty feelings along the lines of Woops, we cocked up, lets lend a hand?

 

[me123]

Hopefully some good news coming?

'Good progress' in ScotRail talks

Hopefully we won't see action, which apparently could start on the 17th of August if things don't go well. The unions have been, unusually, quite positive about the proposal on the table (i.e. the planned Sunday working), so I'm hoping they can come to an agreement.

 

[Starmill]

Whilst the situation isn't great, is it not a lot better that people are aware of the alterations in advance?

Much better than turning up on the day to a departure board with a list of cancellations. Communication is key.

While this is true, the pertinent point is that the disruption is so long-running that they feel the need to actually publish a whole amended timetable - which in some cases consists of 'lets give up'.

Also, given this is entirely the operator's fault, I would hope that compensation claims based on the full timetable would still be honoured.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Not sure about compo TBH as they could argue that they opperated replacement road transport and whilst its already been mentioned upthreadthat the WHL isnt nearly as nice on a bus, the fact is pax could still travel and ferry connections were still met so there'd be no real grounds for a claim? Likewise in the Central Belt alternatives were offered and journeys could be made. Only acception I think would be the Far North where the advertised reduced service fell apart spectacularly and I am unsure what was done for those trying to use it???

 

[scotraildriver]

Deal agreed. All sorted, if only they had done that last week and avoided all this bad press and hassle for passengers.

 

[me123]

Fantastic news

TBH, wasn't expecting full industrial action, too many positive noises coming from the union, which is generally an unusual thing to happen. Hope the deal's good for you drivers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
BBC News Article

Under the new deal, drivers will receive a pay rise of 2.5% and be paid for each Sunday that they volunteer to work.

It's not very clear on the BBC site, but does that mean that drivers are still not contracted to work Sundays? And, as such, there will be more negotiations?

 

[scotraildriver]

Drivers still must work rostered Sundays but will get an additional payment which roughly equates to time and a half to encourage more to work days off. If it doesn't work there will need to be more talks but TBh most Sundays were fully covered anyway, it just provides more incentive.

 

[me123]

Cool, thanks for explaining. Happy for you guys to get a good deal and happy to see what will hopefully be a normal service restored on Sunday.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Likewise. Good news

 

[scotraildriver]

Yes everything will be normal on Sunday as long as enough folk volunteer................. 100 new drivers on the way to reduce the volunteer aspect

 

[berneyarms]

Yes everything will be normal on Sunday as long as enough folk volunteer................. 100 new drivers on the way to reduce the volunteer aspect

But will that eliminate the need for volunteers?

Clearly the business needs to get to the point where volunteers aren't required to work Sunday timetables.

 

[scotraildriver]

It will pretty much as each new driver will work approx 2 rostered Sundays per month.

 

[berneyarms]

It will pretty much as each new driver will work approx 2 rostered Sundays per month.

Well that sounds like a good deal for everyone, and it would appear that Abellio are not quite the big bad people some posters were making them out to be in this thread.

In fact it sounds like they've managed to clear up a mess that others didn't want to deal with.

 

[scotraildriver]

Except they asked half the cleaning staff and 80 fitters to take voluntary redundancy. Increase DOO. Have been late with payroll deductions for 3 months. Failed to make credit union contributions. If there was one good thing about First it was they took almost all staff in house and gave proper contracts, pensions, sick.pay etc. As Abellio cannot operate with half the cleaning staff and 80 less fitters we can only assume they want to go back to agency employment. That is bad news for everyone.