Scotrail service not allowed to sit in "vestibule"?

[Jordan1296]

Went for the 16:26 Aberdeen to Inverurie service. Struggling to get to the carraige due to mobility issues which as usual was parked quite a distance from the barriers. Conductor barked at me "you'd better hurry up as you're going to miss the train" so I got on at the end of a class 158. Sat down in the corridor beside the doors at the end of the carraige as I have done many times before then he told me "you can't sit there, it's the vestibule. You have to sit in the cabin". Only issue is that there were no spare seats in the cabin so I ended up standing in the next vestibule between both carraiges.

I've seen a few jobsworths in my time but I'm still struggling to think of a single reason that could stop me sitting in the fold down seat I've sat in hundreds of tmes before with no issues whatsoever?

Any ideas?

I completely understand your frustration, but also understand it from the conductors side too. Pre-pandemic, I would usually sit in the vestibule at the rear of the train if I couldn't get a seat (or was too lazy to walk the length of the train to find one), but conductors need the space to be able to open/close the doors. Some conductors start off at the back, walk the length of the train and operate the doors from the front at the next station but its not always the case.

Agree with you though that Aberdeen do have some really rude and uninterested conductors who will do the bare minimum and no more. They also have some absolute gems.

I get that impesson too. If you question the staff at the Aberdeen barrier they are totally unhelpful. And that's on a good day.

Also agree with you on this. One particular individual comes to mind. The rest though couldn't be more helpful.

 

[RailWonderer]

They may have started out keen and pleasant but years of dealing with rude and uncaring passengers has made them bitter and cynical. They may feel they get the same amount of abuse as someone who does the bare minimum so why bother.

Said like a true railwayman.

 

[Efini92]

Went for the 16:26 Aberdeen to Inverurie service. Struggling to get to the carraige due to mobility issues which as usual was parked quite a distance from the barriers. Conductor barked at me "you'd better hurry up as you're going to miss the train" so I got on at the end of a class 158. Sat down in the corridor beside the doors at the end of the carraige as I have done many times before then he told me "you can't sit there, it's the vestibule. You have to sit in the cabin". Only issue is that there were no spare seats in the cabin so I ended up standing in the next vestibule between both carraiges.

I've seen a few jobsworths in my time but I'm still struggling to think of a single reason that could stop me sitting in the fold down seat I've sat in hundreds of tmes before with no issues whatsoever?

Any ideas?

According to @Eccles1983 its because it’s crumple zone and you’ll get crushed in the event of a collision.

The real reason is more likely because the guard is in that cab and wants the space clear to be able to do his doors.

 

[NoOnesFool]

According to @Eccles1983 its because it’s crumple zone and you’ll get crushed in the event of a collision.

The real reason is more likely because the guard is in that cab and wants the space clear to be able to do his doors.

Crumple zones only on 125 MPH stock.

 

[Efini92]

Crumple zones only on 125 MPH stock.

It was sarcasm…

 

[NoOnesFool]

It was sarcasm…

That's difficult to interpret through the method of a written forum.....

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

They may have started out keen and pleasant but years of dealing with rude and uncaring passengers has made them bitter and cynical. They may feel they get the same amount of abuse as someone who does the bare minimum so why bother.

Most railway staff are great but there's a tiny minority who seem to have a kind of open contempt for the public that I've never seen in any other industry.

The challenges of working with the public aren't unique to railway staff.

 

[seagull]

Most railway staff are great but there's a tiny minority who seem to have a kind of open contempt for the public that I've never seen in any other industry.

O/T but:

Oh, it's there in other industries all right, I've worked in customer facing/service roles in one or two varied places and it takes a very special person not to be ground down by the daily abuse and rudeness from what is usually only a minority of customers, but it's that which stays with you and sours the whole job.
The most open contempt for customers I saw was in a firm that sold double glazing. Even the managers were in on it.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Most railway staff are great but there's a tiny minority who seem to have a kind of open contempt for the public that I've never seen in any other industry.

The challenges of working with the public aren't unique to railway staff.

You will find that a very large number of people who deal with difficult or demanding customers or people develop contempt for them.

Retail from top to bottom being a main one, but having worked in theme parks I can confirm the same except for a small minority or overly positive staff who would go out of their way to be spat on by some youth.
Even in high end department stores where staff are well trained and looked after, it's customers who have the biggest impact on your well-being. Bad customers ruin your day for sure.

The railway in particular struggles with contempt because it's often that an individual receives at least verbal abuse on a daily, if not hourly, basis for simply doing their job. Add to that the passive aggressive emails from directors and increasingly hard working conditions it's hard to not understand why.

 

[Deltic1961]

As a long standing Scotrail customer I am in general frustrated with many aspects of the service they provide. I have tried submitting complaints online by email and it takes a coupe of weeks for them to even reply to your initial contact. The last complaint I raised took 8 weeks for me to get absolutely nowhere, so it was passed on to the ombudsman.

Of course it's never right for someone just doing their job to be verbally abused by customers, however in Scotrail's case I can imagine sometimes customer anger spills on to the staff. The company make it impossible to contact management who hide behind the curtains, so it's inevitable that sometimes the front line staff will receieve negativity.

Last time I spoke to a mamber of staff about an issue with a service they said it has to be someone "up top" that deals with it. only problem is that these "up top" people are impossible to find or talk to, and the cutomer complaint process is pointless.

 

[bunnahabhain]

According to @Eccles1983 its because it’s crumple zone and you’ll get crushed in the event of a collision.

The real reason is more likely because the guard is in that cab and wants the space clear to be able to do his doors.

That may be the real reason, but in a 158 the vestibule will deform in a collision, there are multiple examples of this occurring including Hazel Grove, Barrow upon Soar and Fisherton.

 

[NoOnesFool]

The key with customer service is not to take anything personally. If you are finding you are 'worn down' by grief from customers, then you shouldn't be doing a customer facing role.

 

[Carntyne]

As a long standing Scotrail customer I am in general frustrated with many aspects of the service they provide. I have tried submitting complaints online by email and it takes a coupe of weeks for them to even reply to your initial contact. The last complaint I raised took 8 weeks for me to get absolutely nowhere, so it was passed on to the ombudsman.

Of course it's never right for someone just doing their job to be verbally abused by customers, however in Scotrail's case I can imagine sometimes customer anger spills on to the staff. The company make it impossible to contact management who hide behind the curtains, so it's inevitable that sometimes the front line staff will receieve negativity.

Last time I spoke to a mamber of staff about an issue with a service they said it has to be someone "up top" that deals with it. only problem is that these "up top" people are impossible to find or talk to, and the cutomer complaint process is pointless.

Give them a call and speak to someone directly?

 

[Deltic1961]

Tried that but they tell you to submt the complaint on the website form.

It's just a merry-go-round.

 

[Rob Gibson]

The key with customer service is not to take anything personally. If you are finding you are 'worn down' by grief from customers, then you shouldn't be doing a customer facing role.?

Seriously? You expect people to become robots, staff being curt and unfriendly is their way and perhaps the only way to not take it personally. I don’t know if any pay level is enough for staff to not be affected but certainly not what customer facing staff are paid usually the lowest in any company. Managers who have done these jobs understand that their staff are going to behave like this and don’t try and change it.

It’s particularly difficult for rail staff with the media taking a very hostile negative attitude which has become the public norm, a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[AlterEgo]

The key with customer service is not to take anything personally. If you are finding you are 'worn down' by grief from customers, then you shouldn't be doing a customer facing role.

The same applies to passengers, too.

 

[bunnahabhain]

The key with customer service is not to take anything personally. If you are finding you are 'worn down' by grief from customers, then you shouldn't be doing a customer facing role.

Thanks for that insight, how much experience do you have in front line customer service?

 

[LowLevel]

The key with customer service is not to take anything personally. If you are finding you are 'worn down' by grief from customers, then you shouldn't be doing a customer facing role.

It is perhaps worth remembering that the railway sits in the position of many of it's customers/visitors (to be polite) either actively not wanting to be there, or trying to take the service offered without paying for it, to the point of violence.

If you're unlucky a succession of unfortunate incidents on the trot is enough to set anyone off. I pride myself on being polite and friendly but even I have "those weeks" where things get the better of me.

Not taking something personally is very easily said and not always that easily done.

It is true however that some people struggle with dealing with other humans more than others and I do wonder why they stay in roles that appear to make them so unhappy, financial reasons I suppose.

 

[Berliner]

Seriously? You expect people to become robots, staff being curt and unfriendly is their way and perhaps the only way to not take it personally. I don’t know if any pay level is enough for staff to not be affected but certainly not what customer facing staff are paid usually the lowest in any company. Managers who have done these jobs understand that their staff are going to behave like this and don’t try and change it.

It’s particularly difficult for rail staff with the media taking a very hostile negative attitude which has become the public norm, a self fulfilling prophecy.

It is difficult to not take something personally when someone is shouting in your face, demanding your name even if you've done nothing wrong or are totally unrelated to whatever is going on and you may simply be the only staff member nearby. Keep in mind these days the person is most likely going to be tweeting about the incident or videoing you in order to share and publicly humiliate YOU for just doing your job. This happens even if you're doing absolutely nothing wrong, but the public don't care about that, they just want attention and someone to suffer for what they see as them being wronged.

It's never justified for staff to put up with that, so it is understandable that people can become worn down with others constantly arguing against them, ignoring them, being deliberately difficult and worst of all getting abusive.