You‘re not even permitted to take trainees in your cab so don’t bother lecturing the rest of us on looking at the bigger picture or having a bit of perspective on the likelihood of contracting COVID-19 especially as you won’t be expected to expose yourself in the same way that you’re so keen to see others do.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Scotrail Trainee Drivers (Ongoing)
- Thread starter scotraildriver
- Start date
You‘re not even permitted to take trainees in your cab so don’t bother lecturing the rest of us on looking at the bigger picture or having a bit of perspective on the likelihood of contracting COVID-19 especially as you won’t be expected to expose yourself in the same way that you’re so keen to see others do.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
John Bishop
Member
Yawn...........not this again
whether I’m allowed to take trainees in my cab or not, I can still comment on the statistical likelihood of the situation, but thanks for your concern. BTW, you've still not replied to my post I sent you the other day, I’m Still waiting for my apology!
If others aren’t keen to take trainees out then they don’t have to do they! It’s not like any DI is being forced to take trainees. As you’ve painfully and repeatedly pointed out, not all DIs are happy to do it which is their choice. So one would assume that every DI who has agreed to take their trainee out in the coming weeks has looked at the risk and decided that they are happy to help out. I’m guessing you won’t approve of that though and consider them reckless?
I agree.
Where should the line be drawn here? January 2021? February? March? When a vaccine is out there? When there are no daily recorded cases of Covid-19?
It should be about limiting the risk here, which is what RICF set out to do, and although it took what seems like forever, they succeeded. Nothing is 100% safe. If people want 100% safe, then they shouldn’t leave their homes. With or without a pandemic.
What’s the depots you know that aren’t going to be taking their trainees ?
it’s all I know this I know that but he/she is not actually saying which depots. Other than they’re in the know.
The agreement in place is between aslef and scotrail. That's a massive step as I've said before for the trainee. The next step is for the dtms agreeing to work to the agreement and then if they give the green light it is then up to the DI if they wish to resume.
People have genuine concerns and worries and some dis simply can't do it due to their circumstances. I would reckon in the end the uptake will be around the 40-50 % mark for each depot despite what it's looking like at the moment and for me that would be a good result.
People have genuine concerns and worries and some dis simply can't do it due to their circumstances. I would reckon in the end the uptake will be around the 40-50 % mark for each depot despite what it's looking like at the moment and for me that would be a good result.
Gedphones
Member
- Joined
- 22 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 75
Anybody got any positive news? In all the time I've been off I've only heard from someone from my depot once. Heard from my DI a few times but she's as much in the know as me. I'm coming to the realisation that it looks like next year now at the earliest before a return, especially now with all the new restrictions being put in place.
kickin aff
Member
- Joined
- 16 Oct 2015
- Messages
- 166
They have currently started Covid testing at both Edinburgh and Glasgow with Perth being added to this by the end of this week. Initial returns will be drivers who were on light duties then trainees, in order of amassed hours. A number of DI's have handed in their tickets which will also slow things and may take several weeks/months to get all up and running.
Going in the right direction but slowly.
Last edited:
Driver1122
Member
.
Last edited:
None at Airdrie or Helensburgh, 2 at Bathgate, 2 at Motherwell and possibly 1 or 2 at Yoker.
Somebody will be along soon to say differently.
Surely your DTM or DI would be better people to ask, what are they saying? Are they going to resume training?
Very true but you’re the one on here stating you know this and you know that. So just thought you could maybe back up your statement. And yes I think I should be back soon
Aw have I rattled your cage ? I asked you the other day to back it up. I’m not really that bothered. Im still getting a wage.
Last edited:
You don’t look bothered
Have you been for your test yet?
Still getting paid so I’m not really that bothered. I Just like to see folk back up their statements. You post a lot on here. Are you even a DI or do you like voicing opinion. Will you be one that will not hand over the train as you would have to wipe cab when you take it over again ?
no test as far as I know
I get the fact that people don’t like hearing that DIs and DTMs have got reservations about resuming training but they have to realise it’s not personal nor is it some anti trainee agenda. Asking people to spend up to 7 hours per day in a cab together is a bit much IMO, especially when we’re constantly being told to maintain social distancing at all other times.
Any trainee and DI can take over my train any time they like, the more people that want to do my work the better.
whats the hold up with testing if DTMs and DIs are ready to go?
Notsohappydays
Member
There's no hold up in testing. It's already underway, including for 'North Clyde' depots. The biggest hold up is the reluctance for DI's to start instructing again, if what's being said about the number of DI's is accurate I've got no reason to doubt that, taking into account the slow process of getting trainees back. I agree though that there needs to be a realistic pay incentive for instructors to take trainees out. However, there seems to be some idea here that all the risk is on the DI's wheras it's 50/50 between the DI and the trainee. The trainees have partners and families, same as the DI's but they're realistic about the very small risk after being tested weekly and having daily temp checks. They're going to follow the exact same precautions outside of work that the DI is to minimize the risk of catching the virus. If DI and trainee are doing everything they should be, then the chance of catching the virus is extremely low. I would argue that 2 people in a cab that have both been tested weekly and daily is less of a risk than going home to their partner, who may have been at work with others, shopping, using ATM's etc or their kids being at school mixing with others.
It's very easy for a DI to say 'Naaa, aint doing this any more' whereas for the trainee, their lives, careers, mortgages etc are hanging on a precipice, completely at the mercy of their trainers and their personal feelings towards the virus.
And that sucks baws.
It's very easy for a DI to say 'Naaa, aint doing this any more' whereas for the trainee, their lives, careers, mortgages etc are hanging on a precipice, completely at the mercy of their trainers and their personal feelings towards the virus.
And that sucks baws.
Driver1122
Member
I agree with a large amount of what your saying.
However! Saying trainees mortgages etc are hanging in the balance. Do you mean job security wise ? As that’s incorrect. There jobs are safe, there even recruiting more. Secondly if it is job security where is your source ?
or did you mean due to them being on reduced wages ?
Notsohappydays
Member
No, I meant reduced/training wages. I think it's reassuring for trainees that medicals, interviews etc have resumed.
golfingdaddy
Member
- Joined
- 19 Feb 2019
- Messages
- 82
Is it incorrect though? Everyone is in a different position. Some trainee's, like myself, have taken a substantial pay cut and have had a plan in place to accommodate that cut until our salary increases once we qualify.
That has been blown out the water and I know of a few trainee's who are now extremely worried about their finances (myself included) and there is no end in sight.
DI'S are completely within their rights to not take out trainee's if they don't feel its safe. Personally, like others, I think the risk is extremely low, and if DI'S are holding out for more money - as has been rumoured - then fair play to them.
But it's not just them that are affected - trainees are not getting expected wage rises, pension contributions are affected and a sense of bewilderment and disillusion with how poorly this is being managed has long set in.
Everyone's position is unique and as I have had no direct communication from senior management or union reps in 6 months, I think I could be forgiven if I didn't feel my job was secure.
I agree with most of this post except the pay incentive for a DI. Nothing against a DI getting additional responsibility pay but it’s not about money it’s about safety.
theironroad
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2014
- Messages
- 3,717
I feel for you and other trainees who've planned and budgeted when taking the job on and having those plans basically thrown out the park. Obviously, I'm sure anyone in that position has considered mortgage holidays if they can or possibly taking on a credit card or loan to get through. I realise that job uncertainty doesn't help that.
Most DIs (not all!) wouldn't hold out just for money and indeed most see the money as a bonus as in reality DIs aren't really paid according to the responsibility of the job or the productive drivers they are training for a company.
I don't work for SR and tbf I don't know if TOC management and union reps are doing better elsewhere, but that's pretty bad not to have some sort of direct communication. It could even be a joint letter/email from local managers /reps just saying what is or even what isn't happening. Being left in the dark isn't good.
I think too much focus is being put on the DI here if I'm honest. Like I said in the post above it is great an agreement has been struck but if the DTMS do not agree to work to said agreement which is in place then the di has no decision to make. Training will be put on hold until it is safe to return. This point seems to be missed here.
Also the DIs have zero chance of an increase to the pittance they get unfortunately. They are selling themselves short but they knew what they were getting into before taking on the role so I have no sympathy.
Notsohappydays
Member
Ultimately, it's the DI that will be making the decision to remain as an instructor and take trainees out and be responsible for training them as well as sharing the tested 'bubble'. The DTM before verification will only be in the cab for 3 assessments for the duration of the trainee's practical handling.
If we're talking about being 'safe' as I said before, the trainee and DI are more likely to catch the virus from their families than being in the cab. What will we even define as safe? Consider that in the history of mankind, only 2 diseases have ever been completely eradicated...
What's more dangerous, 2 weekly and daily tested people being roughly 1-1.5 meters from eachother in a cab or driving home from work at 1am in the snow and ice after a 10hr shift?
If the dtms at any given depot refuse to get into a cab with a trainee, a Di or both then trainees in that area will not be be returning to training. This is the crucial point that needs understood.
As for your second point a Di can not control the weather but he or she can control their risk to infection which undoubtedly will be increased if they share a cab with any individual regardless of the protocols in place. This is a pandemic we are living under and you can't blame them for looking after number 1.
I would like to add though that I do think as things start moving we will see more dis who are more hesitant just now eventually do it.
Last edited:
Notsohappydays
Member
The risk is the same for the trainee, but I'm pretty sure most of them would accept the small risk and be back in the cab tomorrow if they could. I think we can both agree that the trainees are completely at the mercy of the DTM's and DI's now and their personal opinions on what constitutes 'safe'. Is it fair that a trainee's career should be halted for how somebody 'feels' about the virus? What one considers completely safe, another might feel is exteemely dangerous. So what then? What if 99% of the trainees are back in the cab at some point but some poor trainee has a DTM and DI that just doesn't feel safe, despite the numbers?
Edited to add, I think the last point you just mentioned probably answers a few of my issue I mentioned there, with uptake gradually increasing.
Last edited:
I‘ll be surprised if anybody became a DI for the financial benefit on offer from scotrail.
The main reasons seem to be people being bored driving by themselves and like the idea of teaching trainees and having a bit of company, some others do it purely to make it easier to become a DTM. Recently, a lot of people have done it in an attempt to give themselves the edge when vacancies come up for TP express or virgin.
The payment is just over half of what they would get for working a rest day, as you say it’s a pittance for the amount of responsibility but I don’t know any that do it for that or are looking for more money to resume training.
What other trade or industry offers Finantial incentives to effectively take an apprentice on. People do it for 2 reasons 1 pride in passing on knowledge and 2 career progress. With a population of 5.5m and 2.6k deaths so far that a 0.0005% chance of death. This risk is very small and lets be honest if DI’s were getting 10k per year trainees would be back already but as it stands there is no incentive to return. As in life it is risk and reward all trainees would return tom as like previous have said we have mortgages and for a lot a big wage drop to deal with where as DI’s could do without the risk as no incentive. With all the rubbish you have commented il bet you are still happy your bins are being emptied shops are still stocked power still on ambulance at the ready and police a minute away if required. Are these people payed as well or taking less risk I think not so how about you just rap it up as clearly doesn’t concern you anyway as not a trainee DI or DTM just a troll
calm down love.
Ive already said DIs don’t do it for the money and none of them are holding out for an incentive to return to training.
DIs and DTMs can’t be blamed either for a trainees financial situation, if you’ve taken a big wage drop to become a trainee driver that’s on you, what are your plans if you‘re not competent enough to pass out as has happened to plenty of people before?
Its not up to you either to dictate to people what should be an acceptable risk for them and if you think they would return if they were better paid then your ire should be directed towards your company rather than the people you expect to get you qualified and earning enough to pay your mortgage.