Scots Gov wants to remove bus passes for anti-social behaviour

[overthewater]

Minister backs proposal to strip free bus passes from anti-social passengers

It comes after the death of a bus driver in Elgin, Moray, following an assault in February.

news.stv.tv

Those responsible for repeated acts of anti-social behaviour on buses could have their free bus passes stripped from them, after a minister backed proposals to do so.

Transport secretary Fiona Hyslop said the Government is exploring the legal means for suspending concessionary bus passes for people who behave badly on board.

The Scottish Parliament debated a motion from Labour’s Claire Baker on tackling the abuse of bus drivers.

It said the Parliament is “deeply grieved” by the death of Elgin bus driver Keith Rollinson following an assault in February.

A 15-year-old boy later pleaded guilty to culpable homicide in relation to this death.

Ms Baker said violence against drivers is “never acceptable”, referring to a survey from the Unite union which found 84% of Scottish bus drivers have experienced more abuse at work over the last year.

Her motion supported the provision of free bus travel for those under 22, but called on the Government to “remove access to concessionary bus passes from individuals who repeatedly carry out anti-social behaviour”.

Ms Hyslop said the Government would support the Labour motion, as she described the results of the Unite survey as “concerning”.

A working group on anti-social behaviour is due to report by the end of the year, she added.

Ms Hyslop said: “While much of the focus is on young people, I must stress that it is a very small minority who misuse the young persons’ free bus travel scheme.

“We are developing a behaviour code with the intention it will cover all concessionary bus passengers.”

The minister went on to say that concessionary bus passengers may have to sign a code of conduct in order to receive their pass.

She added: “We are examining the legal means to suspend concessionary passes for persistent anti-social behaviour of anyone of any age, as announced last December.”

At long last something might finally get done about this, it should have been in place from the start but as they say better late than never.

 

[azt]

Great idea, I really would welcome it, but how would they catch the people who are offending!

 

[signed]

Wouldn't that cause more problems than it solves?

If the driver is responsible for revenue and challenges someone known to be anti-social/threatening that will only make the situation worse

 

[LiviCrazy]

I think it should probably go further. Anyone reported to the police for repeated offences should have bus passes removed. An awful lot of young people are using buses to mass travel to cause trouble in central locations, example being The Centre and Designer Outlet in Livingston had to ban under 16s for certain periods as kids were travelling from all over. The problems may not be on the bus itself.

 

[azt]

Wouldn't that cause more problems than it solves?

If the driver is responsible for revenue and challenges someone known to be anti-social/threatening that will only make the situation worse

That's exactly what I meant when I said who would catch them! I moaned to the driver about kids vaping on the bus, all I was told was report it! Nothing was done. There is just so much antisocial behaviour nowadays it would be a full time job, probably for a team of people just for one city, trying to stamp it out.

 

[Observer]

Too little, too late unfortunately. Provision to remove them should have been included from the very start, instead they were handed out like candy without any care in the world.

They should never have been rolled out in the way that they had, especially as in some cases they have likely resulted in service reductions due to loss of revenue and anti-social behaviour too.

 

[Dai Corner]

That's exactly what I meant when I said who would catch them! I moaned to the driver about kids vaping on the bus, all I was told was report it! Nothing was done. There is just so much antisocial behaviour nowadays it would be a full time job, probably for a team of people just for one city, trying to stamp it out.

Though as the kids have identified themselves by scanning their passes (I assume they have to do that rather than just show them) it should easy to trace them and 'have a word'?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Why does Claire Baker think people who act anti-socially would care if they had their free travel revoked and wouldn't just barge their way onto buses and expect to travel for free anyway?

 

[jon0844]

Why does Claire Baker think people who act anti-socially would care if they had their free travel revoked and wouldn't just barge their way onto buses and expect to travel for free anyway?

It would, in theory, be easier to remove them from the bus if they had barged on and refused to pay than having a valid pass and playing the victim.

Of course it needs the police to take things seriously, but that's perfectly doable with the right leadership and funding.

 

[90019]

Too little, too late unfortunately. Provision to remove them should have been included from the very start

In theory, it was.

But reporting them and then finding out who it was takes far too much time and effort, so nobody really bothered.

 

[Meerkat]

Great idea, I really would welcome it, but how would they catch the people who are offending!

If there is CCTV footage can’t they compare it to bus pass photos?

 

[Cambus731]

This is one of the reasons why I felt the scheme was a bad idea. By removing the necessity to purchase a ticket to obtain the authority to board a bus, that authority has essentially been given as a freedom to board and remain on a bus. Obviously this is an over simplification but I did anticipate that it would lead to a rise in anti social individuals (and groups) refusing to leave a bus claiming that they have every right to remain on it. Obviously people can be anti social at any age, but it is more prevalent amongst people under thirty.

 

[renegademaster]

If there is CCTV footage can’t they compare it to bus pass photos?

The police don't have the resources to investigate bike thefts even if you have GPS evidence of where it is right now. They aren't going to be combing through photos (and GDPR implications therefore) looking for fare evaders

 

[Meerkat]

The police don't have the resources to investigate bike thefts even if you have GPS evidence of where it is right now. They aren't going to be combing through photos (and GDPR implications therefore) looking for fare evaders

Why would it be the plod?
Bus company has the cctv and the if they don’t have the photos then the council who issued the cards would, and the latter would be the people to cancel the pass.

 

[jon0844]

The police don't have the resources to investigate bike thefts even if you have GPS evidence of where it is right now. They aren't going to be combing through photos (and GDPR implications therefore) looking for fare evaders

I have seen videos recently where the police HAVE assisted in getting back property that has been tagged rather than saying 'nothing we can do - and don't risk it by going there yourself', and we've had a number of prolific shoplifters chased and arrested around here - including multiple undercover police officers following and observing.

I reported someone peering into cars on a bike, shining a torch and trying door handles, on my road and they sent out five cars, and later arrested someone (who had smashed the window of a car about 100 yards up the road). Footage from my camera will hopefully see him plead guilty and jailed.

I am not sure if it's down to the police forces themselves or pressure from the new Government - but let's hope we see more of it.

 

[GusB]

This is one of the reasons why I felt the scheme was a bad idea. By removing the necessity to purchase a ticket to obtain the authority to board a bus, that authority has essentially been given as a freedom to board and remain on a bus. Obviously this is an over simplification but I did anticipate that it would lead to a rise in anti social individuals (and groups) refusing to leave a bus claiming that they have every right to remain on it.

Why is it a bad idea?

Are you proposing to remove Oyster from London buses and contactless from every operator that employs such technology? What about concession card-holders who have to tap their cards on a reader or ticket machine?

Even if someone has pre-paid using an app or loading a smart card, most people still have to board the bus first before tapping their card/phone on the reader.

Obviously people can be anti social at any age, but it is more prevalent amongst people under thirty.

Do please provide a source to back up your ageist statement!

 

[SilentWatcher]

I may be wrong, but I think Cambus was referring to under 22s, and particularly teenagers, being lead to believe they have some sort of god given right to travel and nobody can challenge their presence or behaviour because they have the card. I will concede that this doesn't apply to all, but it certainly seems to apply to quite a number of them based on my experience.

If they're getting it for free, they've got less respect and appreciation for their travel/bus/driver than if a fare had been paid (whether they get a physical ticket or not). I've lost count of the number of teens I've seen show a bit of an attitude problem when they're simply asked to turn the pass over on the reader so their photo can be seen, like they're being asked to do something that will cause them a huge inconvenience or take time out of their day. Unfortunately this seems to be part of a mentality that some have that they can behave how they like, do what they want when they want, show little to no respect for others around them, and that everything should be done for them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming to have been a saint when I was that age. However, I certainly didn't behave like that and I don't even remember the more 'troublesome' kids I went to school with behaving quite like they do now. I don't think it's a case of rose tented specs either, I'm only in my 30s!

 

[Ghostbus]

The intention is good.

The implementation is classic adherence to the bad cases make bad laws school of government.

A working group drawing up a behavioural code of conduct that every single concessionary bus pass applicant must sign, just so a tiny minority of young people "could" have it taken away for "repeatedly" engaging in anti-social behaviour, has Supreme Court challenge / media feeding frenzy / unintended consequences / Kafkaesque nightmare written all over it.

 

[Tim33160]

Don't get ghosted! say Bee Network https://tfgm.com/dont-get-ghosted

This summer you’ll probably want to hang out with your mates. That could mean travelling together on buses and trams or using bus stations and tram stops.
It’s fine to have fun. But it’s also important you don’t do things that might make other people feel frightened or uncomfortable.
That includes:

• vaping or smoking,
• shouting, making too much noise or playing music out loud ,
• fighting, shoving or being aggressive,
• throwing things, burning things or damaging property.

It could get you removed from public transport and lead to your travel pass being taken off you.

You know how it would feel to get ghosted on social media. So just imagine if that happened in the real world? You could be left on your own while your friends are free to travel.
To avoid getting ghosted, make sure you think about other people around you.

and there's more .... https://tfgm.com/dont-get-ghosted