Scottish shop owner ‘won’t hire staff who rely on ScotRail’

[Adlington]

... because of repeated delays

John McKee, director of Hanover Healthfoods, relies on senior employee Rachel Bell to open the shop at 9:30am every day, which also acts as a parcel drop-off point. However, she said her train service from Aberdour in Fife had been so unreliable that he regularly had to draft in colleagues at short notice or come in himself when she was late.

Mrs Bell, 40, a former sales representative, was equally upset at the delays and cancellations, which she said had become an almost daily occurrence since she started the job in May.

She said: “I have gone from driving 40,000 miles a year to commuting by train and have been quite shocked with what people have to put up with. My boss hired me so he could depend on me but I’m having to let him down on a weekly basis."

Discrimination based on the type of commuting???

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Are there any details about what time her train is booked into her destination and how much margin for error there is before she is late for work?

 

[Mills444]

Wouldn't have thought so considering it is not a protected characteristic.

 

[AndrewE]

I'm not surprised to hear this. I know people who used to commute into Manchester from Mossley and Greenfield whose lives have been turned upside-down. Car sharing, looking for work elsewhere, even just giving up and living off the bank of mum and dad...

 

[Kite159]

The location of the shop appears to be less than 5 minutes walk from Edinburgh (located on Hanover Street)

At a rough guess for a 09:30 start I would say her "aim for" train is the 08:10 from Dundee, which I suspect is where the issues come from as the train is likely to be busy with other Fife commuters (and probably a few coming all the way from Dundee). Single 170 with maybe a 158 attached?

 

[Sirius]

“Scottish shop owner sees possibility of free publicity by going to newspaper on the day the new timetable launches.”

 

[Darandio]

“Scottish shop owner sees possibility of free publicity by going to newspaper on the day the new timetable launches.”

We have the correct answer. On to the next one.

 

[SussexMan]

Discrimination based on the type of commuting???

Wouldn't have thought so considering it is not a protected characteristic.

I'm sure someone with epilepsy who is refused a job because they have to rely on public transport to get to work would have a very strong case.

 

[robbeech]

“Scottish shop owner sees possibility of free publicity by going to newspaper on the day the new timetable launches.”

Scottish shop owner has issue with staff being late for work.

 

[Sirius]

I’m sure these things happen, but with 365 days in the year I’m cynical why it appeared today.

The more cynical part of me wonders if the journalist and trader are known to each other.

 

[Macwomble]

Looks like an excuse to get a bit of free publicity on the run up to Christmas.

 

[robbeech]

Looks like an excuse to get a bit of free publicity on the run up to Christmas.

Not if people think the shop will be closed.

 

[Deltic1961]

Well you can gloss over it all you want and class it as a publicity stunt, but it's the way things are all the time.

Today has been another shocker for Scotrail, PPM down to 72% currently and you have to equate some of those delayed journeys in to someone not getting to work, being able to pick up their kids from childcare, missing connections etc. and that does have a cost to the economy.

Doesn't seem to bother Michael Matheson or those who try to protect their precious industry one hoot though.

 

[Clip]

... because of repeated delays


Discrimination based on the type of commuting???

Is this a protected form of discrimination?

 

[mark-h]

The location of the shop appears to be less than 5 minutes walk from Edinburgh (located on Hanover Street)

A location that staff would have to either live nearby (a lot of people will be within an easy walk) or take public transport. Parking is expensive and difficult.

 

[whhistle]

I'm sure someone with epilepsy who is refused a job because they have to rely on public transport to get to work would have a very strong case.

Why does having epilepsy have anything to do with it?
No need to cloud the issue with a disability.

If the worker is late to work all the time, what do you expect?
Time to get a new job, catch an earlier train, get a moped/car/taxi, write to their MP about it.
The shop owner isn't really not employing them because they use the trains to get to work. They are pre-empting the employee will be late all the time. Whether that is right or fair is the question.

 

[dk1]

Who the hell would want to work for this dictator in the first place?

 

[noddingdonkey]

Somebody who expects his staff to be on time is a dictator?

 

[dk1]

Dictating how they get to work.

 

[mpthomson]

I'm sure someone with epilepsy who is refused a job because they have to rely on public transport to get to work would have a very strong case.

Epilepsy is a disability and thus a protected characteristic. Being a commuter who is late because trains are late is not. Epilepsy isn't even mentioned in this story and therefore this case falls clearly into the second category. Not sure why you even brought it up to be honest.....

 

[mpthomson]

Dictating how they get to work.

He's perfectly within his rights to 'dictate' that she turns up on time for work!

 

[LAX54]

Looking at times over the past 14 days, there are 3 trains to get her there on time, and in those 14 days, they were at the most 10 late, with two days in those 14 1B09 was 20 late. (and even 1B09 wold have got her there in time for work when it was 20 late !)

 

[robbeech]

the Shopkeeper likely wouldn’t care how the staff get there if it never (or rarely) caused problems. As it stands, the person is frequently late for work. This isn’t acceptable.

You can argue that the employee being late isn’t their fault, but it isn’t the shopkeeper’s fault either so why should it become the shopkeeper’s problem?

There’s far too many people who expect employers, particularly of small businesses to go out of their way at great cost to allow employees some mysterious rights to get away with breaking the rules. It’s not just about being late either.



I do agree that it has come at a suspiciously interesting time.

 

[Typhoon]

If the worker is late to work all the time, what do you expect?
Time to get a new job, catch an earlier train, get a moped/car/taxi, write to their MP about it.
The shop owner isn't really not employing them because they use the trains to get to work. They are pre-empting the employee will be late all the time. Whether that is right or fair is the question.

I think there are two issues here.
If the employee travelled by car but was permanently late because the traffic was nose-to-tail on the M90*, would the shop owner be complaining to Traffic Scotland about the roads or asking (telling?) the employee to start out earlier? There is a train at 08:10**, arrives at 08:45 (in theory). Plenty of time to walk to the shop, have a cup of organic tea before opening up even if the train is twenty minutes late. If you are in a position of responsibility, you must expect to get to work early (which should be included in the wage). Alternatively get someone who lives locally to open up every day if it is essential that the shop is open at 09:30. Delays don't just happen on the trains. Scotrail do have some rather neat tools to help the passengers ('Less Busy Trains' and a rather stylish map indicating current problems - on the line through Aberdour, just one peak hour train is 11 minutes late. I suspect some commuters in England would die for such reliability.)

The wider question is punctuality on trains in general (including Scotrail - https://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/default/files/assets/download_ct/stations_performance_display_p8.pdf .
No solutions from me here but little patches here and there are not the answer. It appears to be an industry-wide problem from the various threads on this Forum.

* - I have no knowledge of the M90 but the Queensferry Crossing might be a bottlekneck? Substitute any other road in the Edinburgh area if appropriate.

** - with the 08:38 as a back up.

 

[atillathehunn]

I think there are two issues here.
you must expect to get to work early /// Delays don't just happen on the trains.

No, they must expect the train to run to the printed timetable. Of course, there are allowance, and it's common knowledge that timetables have a margin of error of 10 minutes for long distance and 5 minutes for short distance or local trains. This means we expect the train to arrive +/- 5 or 10 mins 95% (or whatever the target percentage is).

In the car I can leave at any minute within a set of minutes (say between 07.45 and 08.45) which is greater than 2 (2 because you said there are 2 trains he/she could catch). The person then has flexibility, trimming the time by a few minutes here or there as they learn the traffic patterns. Some days it will work out, others not. But delays in the car are internalised, there is not often a higher authority to appeal to. But the train shouldn't aspire to be as bad as the car, it should be a better public service. These delays have not been characterised as random delays, rather systematic ones. If the railway wants people to keep going by train, they have to do better than "the timetable is a work of fiction, we expect to be late, therefore leave several hours earlier". There's no smoke without fire, real people with real jobs are affected by this and it's very funny to imagine that some people on here believe the solution is extended commuting times (not covered by wages) because the train is a joke.

 

[Mathew S]

Epilepsy is a disability and thus a protected characteristic. Being a commuter who is late because trains are late is not. Epilepsy isn't even mentioned in this story and therefore this case falls clearly into the second category. Not sure why you even brought it up to be honest.....

I think that the point was that IF someone could only travel to work by public transport because they had epilepsy AND if their employer / potential employer discriminated against them because of their use of public transport THEN there might be an arguable case for claiming discrimination. Tenuous, in my opinion, but I think that's what @SussexMan was getting at.
The point being that, as others have said, it's difficult to see a basis for a claim of discrimination due to the use of public transport.

 

[al78]

You can argue that the employee being late isn’t their fault, but it isn’t the shopkeeper’s fault either so why should it become the shopkeeper’s problem?

That is the problem with crapness, it often negatively impacts third parties. That is why it is important that we call people and businesses out on crapness, and pressure them into improving things to an acceptable level.

Unfortunately some people can't be bothered to address crapness, and prefer to blame the victims and insist they just deal with it because that's how it is, and so crapness slowly spreads through society like a bucket of diarrhea poured onto a polished floor, it becomes very difficult to clean up and everyone has to wade through it.

 

[Typhoon]

No, they must expect the train to run to the printed timetable. Of course, there are allowance, and it's common knowledge that timetables have a margin of error of 10 minutes for long distance and 5 minutes for short distance or local trains. This means we expect the train to arrive +/- 5 or 10 mins 95% (or whatever the target percentage is).

The point is that the employee is expected to open the shop. If she was just 'behind the counter' turning up late on a few occasions might be a minor irritation, but she has a greater responsibility. The business depends on her being there to open up. And it doesn't matter what mode of transport she uses, she would still need to make sure she was there for opening time (for the vast majority of the time) whether it is to counter a delayed or cancelled train, or road works on the M90 or heavy traffic on the Queensferry Crossing.

I don't disagree with the statements I have underlined at all, hence my statement

The wider question is punctuality on trains in general (including Scotrail - https://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/default/files/assets/download_ct/stations_performance_display_p8.pdf .
No solutions from me here but little patches here and there are not the answer. It appears to be an industry-wide problem from the various threads on this Forum.

but it is her additional responsibility that means that a back-up needs to be considered: two sets of keys, earlier starting out, someone closer opening up, whatever.

... "the timetable is a work of fiction, we expect to be late, therefore leave several hours earlier". There's no smoke without fire, real people with real jobs are affected by this and it's very funny to imagine that some people on here believe the solution is extended commuting times (not covered by wages) because the train is a joke.

For 'several hours' read 28 minutes.
And I don't find it funny. I was in a similar situation. I needed to be contactable from 08:00 so I aimed to be in work for 07:30 so if a train or bus was late or cancelled I would still be OK because I knew no-one else would pick up the load. Others who did the same job did likewise, whatever mode of transport they used. Stuff happens. We just knew that if we were late, it inconvenienced others. ​

 

[scotraildriver]

For 'several hours' read 28 minutes.
And I don't find it funny. I was in a similar situation. I needed to be contactable from 08:00 so I aimed to be in work for 07:30 so if a train or bus was late or cancelled I would still be OK because I knew no-one else would pick up the load. Others who did the same job did likewise, whatever mode of transport they used. Stuff happens. We just knew that if we were late, it inconvenienced others. ​

[/QUOTE]

Working as a train driver obviously me being late for work can cause huge disruption to the service and other people. My commute to work (car) takes 25 mins but I give myself a full hour every day, because every so often something happens, an accident, the M8 is a car park etc. Most days I'm at work far too early but I'd rather do that than cause problems for my work and our passengers. Most Scotail employees do the same. Things happen and sometimes people need to cut themselves a bit of slack.

 

[fowler9]

I have a great deal of sympathy for both the shop owner and the member of staff. The owner has a business to run and is providing a job to the member of staff. At the same time it is immensely frustrating not to be able to rely on public transport. Last week one day I got in to work 45 minutes before my shift started and my boss asked if I couldn't sleep. I had left the house at the same time as the day before when I got to work one minute late.