SE Class 375 - a very tame refurbishment

[lookingforit35]

As luck would have it, 375308 was waiting for me at Charing Cross today for my journey home. A quick glance showed the new lilac coloured doors (though not full height like the 465 colour scheme) so naturally I checked out the rest of the refurb.

Dont get me wrong, these are pretty new units but a lack of maintenance in respect of their appearance has been noted on in other threads. However disappointment awaited me........

- New purpleish seat covers match the ones in the 465/466 fleet. All the same colour including first class, ie no different "zones" within each carriage. No issue there, but the cloth looks oddly fitted with threads loose and badly folded material to fit the seat itself.

- Same carpet (same stains!) with new flooring only in first class.

- New CCTV domes - 4 in each carriage (I thought CCTV was already fitted in the dot matrix destination displays).

- And a mild clean up of the interior surfaces.

But on exiting, the biggest surprise. The new colour doors are the only change to the exterior. No fresh paint etc, just a wipe down! And the grey stripe around the bottom of the carriages is still missing, so who knows if there will be another variation of the SE clolour scheme.

Dont get me wrong, it could hardly be described as the end of the world. But the carriages looked shabby before the refurb, and a few bits of vinyl doesn't really show a lot of effort!

 

[ileikcaek]

It's always seemed strange to me why Southeastern's fleet has always retained the same looks since they were brand new with connex (grey band and yellow doors) and most still retain the original connex design albeit with the southeastern logo.

GoVia have never seen the point in going to the cost of designing a proper livery for the southeastern fleet except for minor color changes here and there while their other franchises (southern and London Midland) have had specific designs made that look good, especially London Midland.

 

[lookingforit35]

Agreed.

Although for me it's not so much about the actual looks as the rather unenthusiastic way that any work is undertaken. For instance, the grey stripe was removed from 375/3/6/7 units for access for essential maintenance (it remained on 375/8/9s) ages ago but has never been replaced. It all just smacks of being done "on the cheap".

 

[bgstrowger]

Agreed.

Although for me it's not so much about the actual looks as the rather unenthusiastic way that any work is undertaken. For instance, the grey stripe was removed from 375/3/6/7 units for access for essential maintenance (it remained on 375/8/9s) ages ago but has never been replaced. It all just smacks of being done "on the cheap".

Think you sum up southeasthern's attitude in the last four words.

And yet we're expected to cough up for 13% fare rises to "pay for improvements". Well, I've been commuting on southeastern for over 2 and half years and haven't seen any improvements.

 

[Pumbaa]

Think you sum up southeasthern's attitude in the last four words.

Remove southeastern from your sentence, replace with "all TOCs since privatisation" and you're just about there.

 

[bgstrowger]

Remove southeastern from your sentence, replace with "all TOCs since privatisation" and you're just about there.

It's enough to drive you to drink. That would explain the bottle of beer in my hand!

 

[Goldfish62]

As luck would have it, 375308 was waiting for me at Charing Cross today for my journey home. A quick glance showed the new lilac coloured doors (though not full height like the 465 colour scheme) so naturally I checked out the rest of the refurb.

Dont get me wrong, these are pretty new units but a lack of maintenance in respect of their appearance has been noted on in other threads. However disappointment awaited me........

- New purpleish seat covers match the ones in the 465/466 fleet. All the same colour including first class, ie no different "zones" within each carriage. No issue there, but the cloth looks oddly fitted with threads loose and badly folded material to fit the seat itself.

- Same carpet (same stains!) with new flooring only in first class.

- New CCTV domes - 4 in each carriage (I thought CCTV was already fitted in the dot matrix destination displays).

- And a mild clean up of the interior surfaces.

But on exiting, the biggest surprise. The new colour doors are the only change to the exterior. No fresh paint etc, just a wipe down! And the grey stripe around the bottom of the carriages is still missing, so who knows if there will be another variation of the SE clolour scheme.

Dont get me wrong, it could hardly be described as the end of the world. But the carriages looked shabby before the refurb, and a few bits of vinyl doesn't really show a lot of effort!

Sounds similar to the "multi-million pound refresh" of the 458s:

- retrimmed seat cushions at some odd angles, with some cushions soft, and others strangely hard

- horrible flooring replaced with, err, same horrible flooring

- bit of dusting of the interior here and there

- exterior untouched

..and that's it!

I'm not impressed.

 

[323235]

Sounds pretty similar to what Northern and CrossCountry have done/are doing, only their refurbishments really arn't refurbishments and are more Refreshes

 

[fgwrich]

Sounds similar to the "multi-million pound refresh" of the 458s:

- retrimmed seat cushions at some odd angles, with some cushions soft, and others strangely hard

- horrible flooring replaced with, err, same horrible flooring

- bit of dusting of the interior here and there

- exterior untouched

..and that's it!

I'm not impressed.

Oh but Hang On there! They did replace the First Class seats with that of the Grammer Seats as used on FGWs HSTS! Oh, and they also have removed the flowery vinyl patterns at each end of the coach - Come on, they have done some visiable work

Have to say, im not really very impressed with the 458 Refurb program either! Or just the 458 in general - ever since i had one from London Waterloo to Twickenham for a Rugby Match - And thanks to the Air con and the unit being just out of store...i wanst very pleased with the dust showing coming from the AC Unit!

 

[yeahdisk]

Hi... I'm new to this excellent forum but I find it really interesting...

Does anyone know of a good source of information on the current refurbishment 'status' (i.e. rough dates and scope of works) of all the uk rolling stock?

Thanks

 

[hmp455]

Hi... I'm new to this excellent forum but I find it really interesting...

Does anyone know of a good source of information on the current refurbishment 'status' (i.e. rough dates and scope of works) of all the uk rolling stock?

Thanks

Wikipedia is quite a good source

 

[Helvellyn]

What SWT did with the 458s and what XC are doing with the Voaygers, as well as SE with the 375s, is what BR would have called a 'facelift'. However, the more modern term 'refresh' is preferred. Refurbishment is what GNER did to the Mark 4's, FGW to their HST's, etc.

 

[Electrostar]

Am I right in thinking there's now a legal distinction between a "refurbishment" and "refresh"? If I remember correctly the 465/9s were considered a refurbishment not only because they had a first class section installed, new interiors and seating changes, but most-importantly the addition of a disabled toilet and DDA-compliant seating areas. TOCs can refresh older stock with new seat covers and so forth but can't undergo a full refurbishment without changing the existing loos. Obviously this doesn't apply to units like the 375s which already have disabled toilets, nor to stock like the 378s which don't have loos in the first place.

 

[Goldfish62]

What SWT did with the 458s and what XC are doing with the Voaygers, as well as SE with the 375s, is what BR would have called a 'facelift'. However, the more modern term 'refresh' is preferred. Refurbishment is what GNER did to the Mark 4's, FGW to their HST's, etc.

There's nothing "refreshing" about a 458!

In fact, the 458 refresh is so crap the old information notices giving out-dated phone numbers and addresses haven't even been removed. Fancy writing to Rail Users Consultative Committee, anyone? Don't expect a reply.

 

[bgstrowger]

I travelled on 375308 this morning. They hadn't even cleaned the carpet in standard; it was still filthy. The handrails and handles on the seats were still dirty too.

I hope this is not representative of the "improvements" the 8% or more fare rise I'll be paying next year or I'll want my money back.

 

[ileikcaek]

The 8% fare rise is for the executives pockets nothing less.

 

[bgstrowger]

375807 has been also been "refreshed". Travelling on it this afternoon was like drowning in mediocrity.

 

[T163R]

But on exiting, the biggest surprise. The new colour doors are the only change to the exterior. No fresh paint etc, just a wipe down! And the grey stripe around the bottom of the carriages is still missing, so who knows if there will be another variation of the SE clolour scheme.

As for the 465s, just wait. The refurbishement isn't finished, that's all !
There will normally be a dark blue colour on the bottom of the body and the equipment doors.

About the SE refurbishement...I quite like the exterior now, but, what the sh*t did they change inside ?

 

[Electrostar]

Just picking up on Southeastern's lilac door Networker livery, there's a good feature on the Southern Electric Group's website showing all the different examples, from lilac doors without bodyside markings to painted cabinets with/without markings.

In age where so many companies are so particular about their brand identities and spend a lot of money producing design standards, it's quite surprising to see so many variations. Don't get me wrong, if it was a case of reliable trains Vs a standard livery I'd take the former, but with so many cancellations and short-formed trains they can't even manage that. Anyway, a link to the pages:

http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/465liv/465liv04.html
http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/465liv/465liv05.html

 

[lookingforit35]

Just picking up on Southeastern's lilac door Networker livery, there's a good feature on the Southern Electric Group's website showing all the different examples, from lilac doors without bodyside markings to painted cabinets with/without markings.

In age where so many companies are so particular about their brand identities and spend a lot of money producing design standards, it's quite surprising to see so many variations. Don't get me wrong, if it was a case of reliable trains Vs a standard livery I'd take the former, but with so many cancellations and short-formed trains they can't even manage that. Anyway, a link to the pages:

http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/465liv/465liv04.html
http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/465liv/465liv05.html

Yes agreed. And even when completely finished (if this is ever acheived), the liveries will still differ. The 465/0s and 465/1s black colouring around the windows extends to the drivers cab. But on 465/9s and 466s it ends rounded off at the last passenger window. I undertstand two different firms are undertaking the refurbs so why didn't Southeastern give them matching plans? Doh!

 

[Electrostar]

Because that would involve effort on the part of Southeastern and, sadly, that's something they rarely exert. It really is a pitiful company.

 

[jon0844]

Do you have to pay a supplement to travel on the ones with extra black colouring?

 

[T163R]

I always thought that the SE trains without the midnight blue lower band haven't had their refurbishing complete yet.
Like if a train had it's refurbishement started, not finished, put into service, and the refurb will be completed later, when the train isn't in service !

 

[Hydro]

Do you have to pay a supplement to travel on the ones with extra black colouring?

Yes, and the ones with uncoloured doors now stop at all intermediate stations.

 

[T163R]

Yes, and the ones with uncoloured doors now stop at all intermediate stations.

Is this true ? oO

 

[Hydro]

No, it's just a little joke at SouthEastern charging supplements on their "different" High Speed services, and the perceived run down of their domestic services; some say to encourage people on the HS services and thus pay more.

 

[T163R]

No, it's just a little joke at SouthEastern charging supplements on their "different" High Speed services, and the perceived run down of their domestic services; some say to encourage people on the HS services and thus pay more.

Ok, had a doubt here ^^

 

[lookingforit35]

I always thought that the SE trains without the midnight blue lower band haven't had their refurbishing complete yet.
Like if a train had it's refurbishement started, not finished, put into service, and the refurb will be completed later, when the train isn't in service !

Correct. Although in itself slightly odd, as to apply the bottom vinyl/paintwork surely this will involve an additional deep clean of the exterior (ie if they did it all in one go, this would actually save effort).

Most odd. But i am sure SE know what they are doing. :roll:

 

[jon0844]

When FCC refreshed its stock, the exterior wasn't always done at the same time/same company as the interior.

However, at least they managed to get everything looking almost identical in the end so I presume every company involved, including the in-house stuff at Hornsey, were given the same plans. The only exception I can think of is that some 365s had carpet by the disabled toilets and some got vinyl flooring (more sensible given the chance of there being leaks).

 

[bgstrowger]

Correct. Although in itself slightly odd, as to apply the bottom vinyl/paintwork surely this will involve an additional deep clean of the exterior (ie if they did it all in one go, this would actually save effort).

Most odd. But i am sure SE know what they are doing. :roll:

They'll probably not bother with the exterior, given there's not long to go on the franchise.