Selby Diversion 40 years on

[David Dunning]

Here’s a story I did for YorkMix Radio and Online. Some great CGI brings trains back to the old East Coast Main Line. Thanks to Dave Thorp for the footage

Video brings York to London rail route lost 40 years ago back to life

yorkmix.com

When you take a train from York to London in 2023, the first 20 miles takes a different route to the one used over 40 years ago.

Back in the late 1970s, as the Selby Coalfield was planned, it became clear that there would be implications for the East Coast Main Line.

Digging beneath the route around Riccall and Barlby would have caused serious issues with subsidence and could have meant that speed restrictions would have to be imposed as the line would become unsafe for 100mph services.
That would have been a serious problem for British Rail which was trying to keep the London to Scotland route viable and compete with air and road.

The National Coal Board was faced with the prospect of either leaving thousands of tonnes of coal in place to prop up the railway which had opened in 1871. The loss to the coal board would be in the region of £500 – £800 Million pounds. A new line was expected to cost c£60 million.

So they agreed to pay for the UK’s first purpose built 125mph line which opened to local trains in May 1983 and InterCity 125 trains in the first week of October that year.

It had three main effects:

1. Cutting the journey time between Doncaster and York
2. Avoiding the slow speed restriction over Selby swing bridge
3. Leaving Selby station on a branch line to Hull.

 

[edwin_m]

Here’s a story I did for YorkMix Radio and Online. Some great CGI brings trains back to the old East Coast Main Line. Thanks to Dave Thorp for the footage

Video brings York to London rail route lost 40 years ago back to life

yorkmix.com

When you take a train from York to London in 2023, the first 20 miles takes a different route to the one used over 40 years ago.

Back in the late 1970s, as the Selby Coalfield was planned, it became clear that there would be implications for the East Coast Main Line.

Digging beneath the route around Riccall and Barlby would have caused serious issues with subsidence and could have meant that speed restrictions would have to be imposed as the line would become unsafe for 100mph services.
That would have been a serious problem for British Rail which was trying to keep the London to Scotland route viable and compete with air and road.

The National Coal Board was faced with the prospect of either leaving thousands of tonnes of coal in place to prop up the railway which had opened in 1871. The loss to the coal board would be in the region of £500 – £800 Million pounds. A new line was expected to cost c£60 million.

So they agreed to pay for the UK’s first purpose built 125mph line which opened to local trains in May 1983 and InterCity 125 trains in the first week of October that year.

It had three main effects:

1. Cutting the journey time between Doncaster and York
2. Avoiding the slow speed restriction over Selby swing bridge
3. Leaving Selby station on a branch line to Hull.

I remember going round the diversion via Church Fenton on my way to my university interview, when this was being commissioned in October 1983. I assume the local trains mentioned above were only between York and Selby/Hull, and they were commissioning Templehurst in October.

I also remember hearing, sometime not long after, that NCB had just discovered another coalfield near Snaith, and wondering if the ECML would have to be diverted again. In view of what happened to the coal industry over the next 15 years or so, was diverting the ECML even worthwhile in hindsight for them (it obviously was for the railway)?

 

[David Dunning]

I remember going round the diversion via Church Fenton on my way to my university interview, when this was being commissioned in October 1983. I assume the local trains mentioned above were only between York and Selby/Hull, and they were commissioning Templehurst in October.

I also remember hearing, sometime not long after, that NCB had just discovered another coalfield near Snaith, and wondering if the ECML would have to be diverted again. In view of what happened to the coal industry over the next 15 years or so, was diverting the ECML even worthwhile in hindsight for them (it obviously was for the railway)?

Yes local trains used the spur from the new line to the Leeds - Hull line from May 83. As to was it worth it given the closure of Selby super pit, I think the answer would be yes it was. Loads of coal was extracted before closure and of course the diversion solved the problem of the speed restriction over Selby swing bridge. That was increased to 60mph at one point in the 1970s but then reduced again because the bridge couldn’t take it. (This is what I’ve been told by those who were there at the time)

 

[Pinza-C55]

It might be a good idea for the benefit of anyone reading under 40 years old to explain what "coal mining" and "coal mines" are.
(Joke)

 

[Helvellyn]

ECML electrification would have been more complex wirthout the diversion, either needing a new bridge (and approaches) or finding a way to.make electrification work on a swing bridge!

 

[Pinza-C55]

ECML electrification would have been more complex wirthout the diversion, either needing a new bridge (and approaches) or finding a way to.make electrification work on a swing bridge!

Already been done.

Trowse Bridge - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MP33]

I saw a programme about the new coal field and at meetings it was made clear that NCB were throwing money at the miners to get them to relocate.

 

[Harvester]

My first run (northward) over the diversion was by HST on Saturday 8th October 1983, when taking my young son on a trip to York from Nottingham. I remember intentionally going outward via Grantham, as the XC service didn’t go via Doncaster back then, and enjoying a high speed run over the new line. IIRC the Doncaster-York time was only cut by a few minutes (less than 5) on HST timings, but if the NCB footed the bill, BR would have been quite happy with that!

 

[snowball]

ECML electrification would have been more complex wirthout the diversion, either needing a new bridge (and approaches) or finding a way to.make electrification work on a swing bridge!

There's a 25kV electrified swing bridge at Trowse (Norwich), though it was wired a few years later (1987), and is simpler by being single track, and may not have been swung in recent years.

There are electrified double track swing bridges in other countries.

The Selby bridge will need to be electrified if Transpennine to Hull is ever electrified (as has been promised today). I believe its central cabin was raised some years ago to allow for this, according to old posts on this forum

 

[hexagon789]

IIRC the Doncaster-York time was only cut by a few minutes (less than 5) on HST timings, but if the NCB footed the bill, BR would have been quite happy with that!

AFAIK it was about a 5 min saving - the Flying Scotsman for instance went from 4h35 in the 1983 timetable to an even 4.5 hours both ways in 1984.

 

[Bald Rick]

Already been done.

Trowse Bridge - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Single track bridge, rather easier.

There's a 25kV electrified swing bridge at Trowse (Norwich), though it was wired a few years later (1987), and is simpler by being single track, and may not have been swung in recent years.

I’ve swung it

 

[Pinza-C55]

Single track bridge, rather easier.

The principle is the same. Selby bridge used to have gauntletted tracks so the Up and Down Slow Lines didn't need any pointwork at either end, and the control cabin was raised in anticipation of possible electrification.

 

[3RDGEN]

The principle is the same. Selby bridge used to have gauntletted tracks so the Up and Down Slow Lines didn't need any pointwork at either end, and the control cabin was raised in anticipation of possible electrification.

It's also has a much slower line speed than Trowse so I can't see why there's a real issue, Trowse was done nearly 40 years ago itself.

I saw a programme about the new coal field and at meetings it was made clear that NCB were throwing money at the miners to get them to relocate.

They built new houses for them in Selby I believe, large influx of miners from other areas which had seen pit closures.

My first run (northward) over the diversion was by HST on Saturday 8th October 1983, when taking my young son on a trip to York from Nottingham. I remember intentionally going outward via Grantham, as the XC service didn’t go via Doncaster back then, and enjoying a high speed run over the new line. IIRC the Doncaster-York time was only cut by a few minutes (less than 5) on HST timings, but if the NCB footed the bill, BR would have been quite happy with that!

It could also be used for accessing the Gascoigne Wood site for the coal traffic, Hambleton South to West is a highspeed double track chord whereas the passenger chord from Hambleton East to North is a slow single track, that gives an indication of the priority. At the time they claimed a loaded coal train would leave Gascoigne Wood every 30 minutes.

There was talk that the NCB got ownership of the old trackbed north of Selby as part of the deal, does anyone know if that's true?

 

[A4steam]

Does anyone know if any real archive footage from the original ECLM - Selby-York exists? For years I’ve looked and looked but never had any luck (apart from a brief few second clip) Any help would be much appreciated (happy to pay of course!)

Thank you!

 

[Pit_buzzer]

The Michael Caine filming "get carter" has footage of the area just north of Selby amongst other period ecml clips


(sorry mods, pressed report instead of post reply)

 

[mike57]

I remember the Selby diversion being built, I have a cousin who lives in Thorpe Willoughby near Selby, and the diversion passed nearby.

Interesting thought, prior to the Selby diversion when was the last substantial length of main line railway built (not tube/light rail chords etc.).

Although the saving was only 5 mins not having the slowdown through Selby did mean York Doncaster journeys feel a lot quicker.

 

[Bald Rick]

Interesting thought, prior to the Selby diversion when was the last substantial length of main line railway built (not tube/light rail chords etc.).

Depends on the defintion of substantial, but assuming main line (and not long sidings for freight) then the diversions around Penmansheil tunnel in 1979, or Harecastle tunnel in 1965?

 

[edwin_m]

Depends on the defintion of substantial, but assuming main line (and not long sidings for freight) then the diversions around Penmansheil tunnel in 1979, or Harecastle tunnel in 1965?

Those were of the order of a couple of miles each - there was one north of Durham too. I seem to recall the diversion was described at the time as something like "the first new main line since the Great Central".

 

[ac6000cw]

The Link and Loop tunnels in Liverpool were built 1972-1977. Further back, the new Woodhead Tunnel was opened in 1953.

But I can't think of anything substantial built between the Penmansheil and Selby diversions.

 

[mike57]

Depends on the defintion of substantial

I was thinking anything mainline over a mile when I wrote it, so Penmansheil and Harecastle would be borderline. I was thinking that anything of Selby size would be Pre WW2, probably SR Wimbledon Sutton maybe

But also Woodhead... thanks @ac6000cw for the memory jog

 

[ac6000cw]

I was thinking anything mainline over a mile when I wrote it, so Penmansheil and Harecastle would be borderline. I was thinking that anything of Selby size would be Pre WW2, probably SR Wimbledon Sutton maybe

The 3.75 mile, electrified double-track, Chessington branch was opened 1938/1939 (originally intended to carry on to Leatherhead to form a loop, but the introduction of Green Belt legislation stopped that).

 

[Magdalia]

I was thinking anything mainline over a mile when I wrote it, so Penmansheil and Harecastle would be borderline.

Another borderline case is the Retford diveunder, opened in 1965, which is about 1 mile.

A bit further are the Westbury and Frome cutoffs, opened in 1933, both of which are between 2 and 3 miles long.

Those were of the order of a couple of miles each - there was one north of Durham too.

I can't find much on the Durham example, apart from it reducing the overall distance by 15 chains.

Are there any wartime examples that would count? For example Palace Gates to Bowes Park.

And does Bishton Flyover count? I don't know when that was built, possibly for Llanwern steelworks which opened in 1962.

But I'm assuming that merry go round loops, for example Didcot, don't count.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Those were of the order of a couple of miles each - there was one north of Durham too. I seem to recall the diversion was described at the time as something like "the first new main line since the Great Central".

The line was moved slightly to the west at Newton Hall Junction, north of Durham, to ease the curve when the branch was taken out of use. The was also a major realignment through Relly (sometimes Reilly) Mill Junction just south of Durham when all the complex junctions and yard were taken out of use, but still on railway property.

 

[Bald Rick]

I was thinking anything mainline over a mile when I wrote it, so Penmansheil and Harecastle would be borderline. I was thinking that anything of Selby size would be Pre WW2, probably SR Wimbledon Sutton maybe

But also Woodhead... thanks @ac6000cw for the memory jog

The Harecastle diversion is over two miles.

 

[gg1]

Those were of the order of a couple of miles each - there was one north of Durham too. I seem to recall the diversion was described at the time as something like "the first new main line since the Great Central".

The GWR line from Wootton Basset to Patchway was built a few years after the GCR, opening in 1903, and at 33 miles was I think the longest completely new stretch of 'main line' built in Britain between then and the opening of HS1.

 

[steamybrian]

Ashendon Jn- Aynho Jn via Bicester opened in 1910

 

[PTR 444]

The GWR line from Wootton Basset to Patchway was built a few years after the GCR, opening in 1903, and at 33 miles was I think the longest completely new stretch of 'main line' built in Britain between then and the opening of HS1.

Exactly 100 years apart if that is the case…

Although didn’t parts of the Berks & Hants and Castle Cary - Cogload Junction open in 1906?

 

[gg1]

Exactly 100 years apart if that is the case…

Although didn’t parts of the Berks & Hants and Castle Cary - Cogload Junction open in 1906?

Ashendon Jn- Aynho Jn via Bicester opened in 1910

That's two more, you can also add the Cheltenham to Honeybourne and Tyseley to Henley in Arden to the list of early 20th century GWR openings, combined with the existing Henley in Arden to Honeyburne line they formed the GWRs main route from the West Midlands to the South West. I think Wooton Basset to Patchway was the longest of them though.

Add in the other examples mentioned in the thread and I think we can draw the conclusion whoever came up with the quote that the Selby diversion was "the first new main line since the Great Central" had a slight LNER/ER bias