Selby to Doncaster in 8th June fare revision: Removal of 'any permitted' fare route

[mikeg]

This goes as a lesson to us all when we try to fight for reasonable routes: The sequence of events:
Following correspondence with Hull Trains one weekend when their trains either didn't call at Doncaster or were marked pick up only Southbound, I complained about the lack of options for passengers travelling from Selby to Doncaster, a relatively popular flow. They said they thought that via Leeds ought to be permitted. I pointed out there were no map permissions for this.

Off to LNER! Who after an initial incompetent reply referring me to Network Rail, then said that Selby to Doncaster had never been valid via Leeds or York, and that they saw no reason why it should be. They also said that where possible, they will seek to remove 'any permitted' route tickets where they offer no additional value. Now of course, they've done just that. In a forum meal @yorkie seemed to think this was a mistake and that at one point Selby to Doncaster 'any permitted' was valid via York. Either way, it has to be said that for the fifth most popular journey from Selby (source: Railwaydata) the level of journey opportunities is pretty poor. Why is it that when I presented them with a commercial opportunity: Make more money by allowing passengers to buy a more expensive ticket, their response was 'ner-ner, you can't do that'!

I'm honestly at a loss as to how anti-passenger, beyond even any profit-seeking rationale, LNER have become. It's not necessarily nationalisation. Under BR this may or may not have been a valid route, but then service patterns were vastly different. Also at current fare levels, it would have passed the 'reasonable route' test. I'm sure East Coast also wasn't this bad. When will LNER's management see sense? Also, does there have to be any consultation on the removal of such fare routes, given the likelihoood it contains a regulated fare (I'm guessing the 'any permitted SVR' was regulated?)

Could it be worth contacting TPE and/or Northern who arguably have an even greater commercial interest in the flow, granted they're part of the same organisation but have sepearate management? I just don't get any logic behind this.

A further thought: What if it weren't for Hull Trains? Does LNER like open access so much they want to give them 80% of the journey possibillities? I thought they didn't like Open Access, so why are they giving them a near monopoly? IF Hull Trains were to fold, passengers would have few options other than a tortourous route via Gilberdyke with poor interchange times and an even more infrequent service. Again, this doesn't sound like the way to encourage people to travel by train.

 

[yorksrob]

Of course, the Establishment just want to "simplify" fares and make things easier for passengers.

LNER management are a disgrace, however we'll still be lumbered with them unfortunately.

Isn't it possible to complain to the ORR or someone about onerous changes in restrictions ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I suspect LNER's motivation is to want as few local passengers on their trains as possible so they can sell more lucrative fares to London?

 

[Haywain]

What's it to do with LNER? According to BRFares.com the fare setter for Selby to Doncaster is Northern.

 

[mikeg]

What's it to do with LNER? According to BRFares.com the fare setter for Selby to Doncaster is Northern.

The any permitted fare setter was LNER….

Presumably back in the day Northern set a more direct route to compete with them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Jun 2025 ==

I suspect LNER's motivation is to want as few local passengers on their trains as possible so they can sell more lucrative fares to London?

I suspect you’re right. Unfortunately that’s the opposite of how a national piece of infrastructure is supposed to be run.

 

[Watershed]

The "Any Permitted" fare didn't actually add any validity immediately prior to its removal, since travelling via York or Leeds wasn't a permitted route: it wasn't the shortest route or within 3 miles thereof, it wasn't a mapped route, and there wasn't an easement that allowed it.

The fare was clearly priced and intended to be used via Leeds or York (and that's the reason it was priced by LNER as opposed to Northern or TPE), so the sensible thing to do here would have been to add mapped routes via Leeds and York. But LNER just took the easy option instead and deleted the fare.

 

[Dewedin]

Bonkers that you can now buy an LNER-priced Any Permitted ticket to Bentley or Adwick and travel via Leeds, but not get a ticket for Doncaster!
(travelling Selby to Bentley or Adwick via Leeds is unlikely to use any LNER trains either...)

 

[Watershed]

Bonkers that you can now buy an LNER-priced Any Permitted ticket to Bentley or Adwick and travel via Leeds, but not get a ticket for Doncaster!
(travelling Selby to Bentley or Adwick via Leeds is unlikely to use any LNER trains either...)

Agreed. That ticket would be valid to get to Doncaster via York or Leeds, provided you returned via the opposite route and took a stopper that called at Bentley.

You could plausibly take LNER on that ticket between York and Doncaster, or Leeds and Wakefield.

 

[kieron]

Doncaster-Selby validity via York (using the DO map) was removed on 4/5/2017. There used to be an easement (easement 700157) which stopped Doncaster-Selby tickets with the "direct" route code from being used that way.

I don't know when the journey was valid on a straightforward route via Leeds, though.

Going via Gilberdyke is slow, but there is roughly one train an hour during the day, something Hull Trains don't manage. There's only one Selby-Gilberdyke train on Sundays, though, and two the other way. There are plenty of Selby-Brough and Brough-Doncaster trains, but Brough is another place you can't go with a Doncaster-Selby ticket.