Sending important letters - signed for or special delivery?

[AlbertBeale]

Moderator note: Split from

Fare Evasion - Court Letter - HELP!

Hi Everyone, Today I have received a letter summoning me to court on for fare evasion. In April, I was travelling to London and was caught “short ticketing”. The gate didn’t open and the ticket officer upon checking realised this ticket was printed in at another station and therefore...

www.railforums.co.uk

ask them if they have a record of getting your letter, if they say no - ask if you can send it again. If they say that won't help send an amended version of it again. Send it registered post or signed for or whatever it is called so you can track that they got it.

If they say they did get it, ask them why they did not reply to say they had decided to commence court action.

Registered post and Signed For are different. Signed For is just that - it goes in the regular sytem, for £1.50 on top of ordinary price, and you get proof of posting when you hand it in at the Post Office, and proof of delivery is then available on the Royal Mail website using the tracking number they give you (once it has been delivered!). Registered - as was years ago - is now Special Delivery; this is another £5 or so, and besides the record at each end it goes in a separate postal stream and its progress is tracked en route. And it has a next day guarantee, whilst Signed For just gets there at whatever time it would have got there anyway. So the SD one gives greater security that it will get there, and that it'll get there quickly; for legally sensitive documents where time is critical, I'd be tempted to use SD rather than just Signed For.

 

[Hadders]

Registered post and Signed For are different. Signed For is just that - it goes in the regular sytem, for £1.50 on top of ordinary price, and you get proof of posting when you hand it in at the Post Office, and proof of delivery is then available on the Royal Mail website using the tracking number they give you (once it has been delivered!). Registered - as was years ago - is now Special Delivery; this is another £5 or so, and besides the record at each end it goes in a separate postal stream and its progress is tracked en route. And it has a next day guarantee, whilst Signed For just gets there at whatever time it would have got there anyway. So the SD one gives greater security that it will get there, and that it'll get there quickly; for legally sensitive documents where time is critical, I'd be tempted to use SD rather than just Signed For.

Special Delivery is £6.85 (or £11.22 posted on a Friday for delivery on a Saturday)
Signed For costs £2.60 for a standard sized letter

If all you want is a signature to confirm the letter has got there then I'd always go for 'Signed For'. Special Delivery guarantees delivery by 1pm and offers compensation but that doesn't really apply to a letter to a train company as the letter itself has no value.

 

[Titfield]

I think the choice of signed for versus special delivery is driven by a time deadline (to respond) being in place.

If you are "close to the wire" use special delivery as it guarantees next day delivery thus ensuring the letter was received by the deadline.

If there is no deadline but you need certainty of delivery then choose signed for.

One slight word of caution. I did use signed for to send a letter to a govt department. The letter was indeed signed for but not as an individual item. Apparently they signed for a bag of signed for items. The letter was misrouted within the "postal room" and lost so I had to send a duplicate. It caused no end of inconvenience and time delay as its "loss" didnt become apparent for some weeks during which time I got a letter from said department saying I hadnt responded. I asked the Post Office for a copy of the delivery signature only for them to tell me that it was the bag signed for and that bag signature was a scribble.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

(I've asked for this interesting digression to be split off into a new thread)

One slight word of caution. I did use signed for to send a letter to a govt department. The letter was indeed signed for but not as an individual item. Apparently they signed for a bag of signed for items. The letter was misrouted within the "postal room" and lost so I had to send a duplicate. It caused no end of inconvenience and time delay as its "loss" didnt become apparent for some weeks during which time I got a letter from said department saying I hadnt responded. I asked the Post Office for a copy of the delivery signature only for them to tell me that it was the bag signed for and that bag signature was a scribble.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/7 may be your friend:

Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7.

7References to service by post.​

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression “serve” or the expression “give” or “send” or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

It seems to me that if the government department has required your reply then there's probably an Act which is authorising or requiring it to be posted. And if you can show that the bag the Royal Mail say it was in was delivered then whatever the post room have done with it is the department's problem and not yours.

 

[Titfield]

(I've asked for this interesting digression to be split off into a new thread)



https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1978/30/section/7 may be your friend:



It seems to me that if the government department has required your reply then there's probably an Act which is authorising or requiring it to be posted. And if you can show that the bag the Royal Mail say it was in was delivered then whatever the post room have done with it is the department's problem and not yours.

Thanks @Fawkes Cat Yes theoretically the problem lays with the Govt Department but practically it became mine because the Govt Department couldn't issue the required documentation without my original letter.

 

[island]

Signed for travels with normal post, it just has an extra scan when accepted and when delivery is attempted. It's no faster to deliver than the equivalent normal service.

Special delivery travels separately and is scanned into and out of every mail centre, it's almost always delivered next day Mon-Fri, and if you absolutely must get something seen next day, that's the service to use.

 

[jfollows]

Special Delivery by 1pm has better compensation cover than the 9am version - £750 I think rather than £50 - and was ideal for sending foreign currency recently. As it happened, it wasn’t delivered on time so I got my postage money back, somewhat quaintly by cheque in fact.

 

[Hadders]

Staff at the Post Office will try and 'upsell' Special Delivery. It is a good service when you need to guarantee something arrives next day, but often next day guaranteed delivery isn't needed, you simply want confirmation that it has arrived and 'Signed For' is fine for that.

Compensation can also be useful but can be a bit of a red-herring. Sending a letter to a TOC won't really get you any compensation in the event it gets lost because there's no value to the letter.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

you simply want confirmation that it has arrived and 'Signed For' is fine for that.

I'm afraid it's not; roughly one third of all "Signed For" letters are in fact not signed for.

Until we switched to electronic means, we used to send some 400 of these a month from where I work, and we would always check the tracking records about a month after posting. It was fairly consistent that a third of them would not have a signature ( and yes, we did claim the recorded fee back for every single one of those each month! ), with some areas of the country being particularly and consistently poor in this regard.

If I needed proof of delivery, I would personally always use Special Delivery despite the additional cost.

Once, at home, I received a Recorded Delivery ( as it then was ) and the envelope had scrawled all over it "Postie signed for you, thanks!".

 

[jfollows]

The other things about Special Delivery that I noted is that "guaranteed" delivery isn't, it only means that you get your money back if it's not delivered in the promised time, and the other one is that you can get them to collect from home rather than having to go to the Post Office, although this home collection isn't unique to Special Delivery of course.

 

[Starmill]

Special Delivery is first and foremost intended for valuable items. Indeed you absolutely must use this for anything expensive or irreplaceable. It's rarely needed for letters but there's a case for using it if delivery were genuinely time-critial, this would be rare though.

 

[jfollows]

Special Delivery is first and foremost intended for valuable items. Indeed you absolutely must use this for anything expensive or irreplaceable. It's rarely needed for letters but there's a case for using it if delivery were genuinely time-critial, this would be rare though.

Precisely - the last time I used it I had £180-worth of Japanese Yen I was converting back to pounds, but I can't remember the previous occasion when I needed to use it.

 

[zero]

The other things about Special Delivery that I noted is that "guaranteed" delivery isn't, it only means that you get your money back if it's not delivered in the promised time

Is anything ever truly guaranteed?

Special Delivery is £6.85 (or £11.22 posted on a Friday for delivery on a Saturday)

I never pay for Saturday delivery, but every Special I've sent on Friday has always been delivered on the Saturday (around 2-3 times a year for the past 5 years).

Recently, RM introduced a new policy of automatic redelivery the next working day. In theory this means that a Thursday posting with no answer on Friday, should have automatic redelivery attempted on Monday; I have now encountered this twice and the redeliveries were performed on Saturday.

 

[plugwash]

Are there any statistics avaialble on the proportion of "lost" items for signed for verses special delivery?

 

[MotCO]

I recently sent a 'Signed For' letter which never arrived. It cost me £2.60, but I complained and got 8 x 2nd class stamps in compensation (value = £6.00)

 

[AlbertBeale]

Are there any statistics avaialble on the proportion of "lost" items for signed for verses special delivery?

I don't think I've ever had any items go irrevocably missing with Special Delivery (despite occasional use for many years) - though I did once get compensation because something missed the delivery deadline.

Signed For - being in the regular post - has much the same (small) chance of disappearing completely as any other letter in the system. Though with Signed For, you're presumably going to check its arrival, and hence will know if it isn't shown as having been delivered, whilst some ordinary post might not get through and if it was fairly routine and not demanding a reply, you might never know - so perhaps Signed For items might seem to have a higher failure rate than normal post, simply because you're more likely to realise. I have occasionally found that there's no record in the system of a Signed For item's delivery, but subsequently find it was delivered - in this case you can still claim money for the failure to get confirmation of delivery, since that's what you paid the extra for.

 

[zero]

Are there any statistics avaialble on the proportion of "lost" items for signed for verses special delivery?

I agree with AlbertBeale. Also any statistics would be inaccurate as some Signed For are dispatched directly to mail centres or put in postboxes without a posting scan. I believe businesses can't claim compensation for that anyway so it doesn't matter.

I think exceedingly few items are lost when sent by SD. With Signed For you can't really tell if the recipient is lying. It also depends on the postman as in the past 2 weeks the postman on my round has just put all my Signed For deliveries into my postbox without scanning them, which has never happened before at this address. Some of them have no posting scan so were obviously placed directly into a postbox.

I recently sent a 'Signed For' letter which never arrived. It cost me £2.60, but I complained and got 8 x 2nd class stamps in compensation (value = £6.00)

Was it not 8 1st class? That is the standard minimum compensation for any sort of failure with RM, even if you provide no evidence.

 

[RyanOPlasty]

In my experience, Special Delivery has the benefit that you often get your money back because they fail to deliver it on time ( But usually on the right day )

 

[Titfield]

A very slight diversion but a Govt Department I have dealings with, when sending communications relating to regulatory compliance send:
1) a letter by signed for delivery
2) a letter by normal first class post
3) a letter by email to "all known email addresses".

The letters are identical and have in bold just below the physical address: "sent by first class post and by email to all known email addresses".

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have occasionally found that there's no record in the system of a Signed For item's delivery, but subsequently find it was delivered - in this case you can still claim money for the failure to get confirmation of delivery, since that's what you paid the extra for.

That's exactly what I was talking about in post #9; it's roughly and consistently a 30% failure rate on signatures so there's always a very good chance of getting the fee back.

 

[MotCO]

Was it not 8 1st class? That is the standard minimum compensation for any sort of failure with RM, even if you provide no evidence.

Actually you may be right.

 

[Hadders]

8 would make sense as 'books' of stamps come in 8's and 4s so they'll sebd you a 'book'. Used to be 12s and 6s so an example of shrinkflation!

 

[MikeWh]

Used to be 12s and 6s so an example of shrinkflation!

Or the stamps now being bigger because of the barcodes.

 

[Ken H]

You dont have to send letters by royal mail. Many of the courier companies would accept a small packet. They will do the signed for bit properly. Cost a bit more but with the addons may be competitive with Royal Mail.

 

[AlbertBeale]

You dont have to send letters by royal mail. Many of the courier companies would accept a small packet. They will do the signed for bit properly. Cost a bit more but with the addons may be competitive with Royal Mail.

My experience of courier companies is different. In the block I live in, items sent by non-Royal Mail services are routinely left kicking around in a public area (and this has happened, at times, with every single courier company I've ever tried to receive anything from). They're not as bad when delivering to business addresses (though still very far from perfect), but I no longer try to have things sent to me personally if there's a chance they might come by anything other than Royal Mail. Sometimes - especially with relief posties over the summer, for instance - the same problem happens with RM; but at least in their case they always accept that it shouldn't happen and generally then get a grip on it again.

 

[contrex]

Moderator note: Split from

Fare Evasion - Court Letter - HELP!

Hi Everyone, Today I have received a letter summoning me to court on for fare evasion. In April, I was travelling to London and was caught “short ticketing”. The gate didn’t open and the ticket officer upon checking realised this ticket was printed in at another station and therefore...

www.railforums.co.uk

Registered post and Signed For are different. Signed For is just that - it goes in the regular sytem, for £1.50 on top of ordinary price, and you get proof of posting when you hand it in at the Post Office, and proof of delivery is then available on the Royal Mail website using the tracking number they give you (once it has been delivered!). Registered - as was years ago - is now Special Delivery; this is another £5 or so, and besides the record at each end it goes in a separate postal stream and its progress is tracked en route. And it has a next day guarantee, whilst Signed For just gets there at whatever time it would have got there anyway. So the SD one gives greater security that it will get there, and that it'll get there quickly; for legally sensitive documents where time is critical, I'd be tempted to use SD rather than just Signed For.

The old 'Registered Letter' or 'Recorded Delivery' is now 'Signed For', and, as you say, goes by ordinary post with proof of sending plus a signature at the other end.

'Special Delivery' is split into 'Special Delivery Next Day 9 AM' and (cheaper) 'Special Delivery Next Day 1 PM'. This is the one that goes by a separate, tracked, stream.

In my experience, Special Delivery has the benefit that you often get your money back because they fail to deliver it on time ( But usually on the right day )

Not if the destination is a PO Box, as I found out. Has to be a physical address.

 

[Titfield]

Not if the destination is a PO Box, as I found out. Has to be a physical address.

Yes and increasingly organisations will not accept PO Box as a contact address.

 

[contrex]

One slight word of caution. I did use signed for to send a letter to a govt department. The letter was indeed signed for but not as an individual item. Apparently they signed for a bag of signed for items. The letter was misrouted within the "postal room" and lost so I had to send a duplicate. It caused no end of inconvenience and time delay as its "loss" didnt become apparent for some weeks during which time I got a letter from said department saying I hadnt responded. I asked the Post Office for a copy of the delivery signature only for them to tell me that it was the bag signed for and that bag signature was a scribble.

I recently retired from a government department local office with a mailroom. We usually had a bag of tracked items every day. Part of the post opening duty was the logging of every single tracked item on a sheet, with date, sender name, tracking barcode and number, description of item. Then each item was signed for by an appropriate desk worker. We kept the sheets for one year in theory (five or six in practice!). The delivery worker asked for the signer's surname and recorded that.

 

[Titfield]

I recently retired from a government department local office with a mailroom. We usually had a bag of tracked items every day. Part of the post opening duty was the logging of every single tracked item on a sheet, with date, sender name, tracking barcode and number, description of item. Then each item was signed for by an appropriate desk worker. We kept the sheets for one year in theory (five or six in practice!). The delivery worker asked for the signer's surname and recorded that.

Thank you for that explanation. The letter I sent was related to letters of administration. At the time there was a long back log of getting such letters issued and consequently its "loss" wasnt apparent for some time.

 

[Haywain]

I worked for several years at a major London Terminal station. All post (Royal Mail) was delivered to a central point and, supposedly, collected from there and distributed by someone from our company. However, this rarely happened with signed for items which were logged and had to be collected and (again) signed for. Which was fine if you knew you were due to receive something but not much good otherwise, and you might not be informed if it was poorly addressed. Couriers, meanwhile, were a nightmare happy to just hand over packages to anyone who would offer a signature which often resulted in items being 'delivered' and never seen again!