September 2023 Timetable Change

[Whiggism]

Hi guess do we know what type of changes we may expect to happen in the September 2023 Timetable change for GTR?

 

[ainsworth74]

Hi guess do we know what type of changes we may expect to happen in the September 2023 Timetable change for GTR?

There's a timetable change in September?

 

[Whiggism]

Is there not? My bad if there isn’t

There's a timetable change in September?

Is there not? My bad if there isn’t

Sorry guys my mistake I thought there would be a change in September as was the case in 2022.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

There is no September 2023 timetable change for GTR.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Is there not? My bad if there isn’t



Sorry guys my mistake I thought there would be a change in September as was the case in 2022.

Processes have all been a bit jumbled since the pandemic, you’re right there have been fairly significant changes at non-standard dates but the normal twice yearly changes are mid-December and mid-May (although for complicated reasons next year is early June.)

 

[whoosh]

There's talk elsewhere on the forum of it being June, October and February going forward from June next year, but I can't see anything official about it.

It has been May and December for many years normally, including December 2023, but as mentioned above, there were various 'service level step-up' changes at non-standard times of the year following Covid, of which September 2022 was one.

 

[PGAT]

Why is it being updated in June?

 

[London Trains]

There were various 'service level step-up' changes at non-standard times of the year following Covid, of which September 2022 was one.

Wouldn't call GTR's September 2022 timetable change a "service level step up," it was very much the opposite for large swathes of the network!

 

[hexagon789]

Why is it being updated in June?

I understand the proposal was to change from:

December - main
May - subsidiary

To:

June - main
October - subsidiary
February - optional subsidiary

The change from would've certainly made planning easier without having a new timetable coming into force only a short time before various ammendments for the Christmas and New Year period.

I'm not sure if this is still going ahead after the ORR decided against permitted the changes to Network Rail's operating licence recently or if that only affects the 12 down to 8 weeks confirmation period.


IIRC the change periods were June and September back in the 2000s.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I understand the proposal was to change from:

December - main
May - subsidiary

To:

June - main
October - subsidiary
February - optional subsidiary

The change from would've certainly made planning easier without having a new timetable coming into force only a short time before various ammendments for the Christmas and New Year period.

I'm not sure if this is still going ahead after the ORR decided against permitted the changes to Network Rail's operating licence recently or if that only affects the 12 down to 8 weeks confirmation period.


IIRC the change periods were June and September back in the 2000s.

Not going ahead, ORR also rejected the change to moving away from a December timetable change.

 

[hexagon789]

Not going ahead, ORR also rejected the change to moving away from a December timetable change.

Thank you, the timetable change element wasn't clear in the reports of the rejection of changes by the ORR.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not going ahead

….Yet

ORR also rejected the change to moving away from a December timetable change.

ORR want to support this, as the whole industry wants it, but there’s some legal issues. (Bizarrely).

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

ORR want to support this, as the whole industry wants it, but there’s some legal issues. (Bizarrely).

That is patently not true. Some parts of the industry want it, others are FIRMLY opposed.

 

[Bald Rick]

That is patently not true. Some parts of the industry want it, others are FIRMLY opposed.

ok, fair enough, a very significant majority of train operators want it.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

ok, fair enough, a very significant majority of train operators want it.

Passenger operators. I’m not aware of much support from the freight companies (although correct me if I’m mistaken.)

Additionally I’m doubtful TOCs would be keen if they were actually carrying revenue risk at the moment. Currently they’re comfortably sitting on management contracts so the predicted loss of revenue isn’t their problem.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Whilst there's no planned national timetable change in September, some TOCs (such as Chiltern on the Amersham route) will have a change in late September/early October for leaf fall season, which usually runs through to the first week of the December timetable.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

ok, fair enough, a very significant majority of train operators want it.

Majority of passenger train operators, freight as a whole were vehemently against it.

 

[The Planner]

It does feel like there is an ambivalence amongst a few of the passenger TOCs as well. FOCs voted against it at the class representative committee and also make a big point about still bidding at T18.

 

[Bald Rick]

Passenger operators. I’m not aware of much support from the freight companies (although correct me if I’m mistaken.)

We might be talking cross purposes. I’m talking about the shift from a December change - everyone I speak to is for that, including the freight guys (insofar as they are ‘for’ anything).

The T12 / T8 thing is a different matter, although the railway doesn‘t seem to have collapsed given that we haven’t been at T-12 for most of the last 5 years+

Whilst there's no planned national timetable change in September, some TOCs (such as Chiltern on the Amersham route) will have a change in late September/early October for leaf fall season,

That is planned (of course), but not as a national change for all operators.

 

[The Planner]

The T12 / T8 thing is a different matter, although the railway doesn‘t seem to have collapsed give;that we haven’t been at T-12 for most of the last 5 years+

You'll catch a few with that bait, "can't plan journeys, advance tickets" etc...

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

We might be talking cross purposes. I’m talking about the shift from a December change - everyone I speak to is for that, including the freight guys (insofar as they are ‘for’ anything).

The T12 / T8 thing is a different matter, although the railway doesn‘t seem to have collapsed given that we haven’t been at T-12 for most of the last 5 years+





That is planned (of course), but not as a national change for all operators.

Yes I believe we might have been, I did read your reply in the context of the whole BTPF concept, rather than just moving away from the December change (which I agree is generally disliked!) Apologies

 

[Adsy125]

That is patently not true. Some parts of the industry want it, others are FIRMLY opposed.

Additionally I’m doubtful TOCs would be keen if they were actually carrying revenue risk at the moment. Currently they’re comfortably sitting on management contracts so the predicted loss of revenue isn’t their problem.

Sorry for being a bit late here, but what's the reason some parts of the industry would be opposed to changing the timetable change date away from December? And what's the worry over revenue risk too?