Serco Caledonian Sleeper contract will NOT be extended

[JamieL]

There's nothing to suggest that CS trains are running empty.

And far from it based on my recent experiences. With Avanti incapacitated, I have been using the Highlander to travel South - Helensburgh to Euston. The train configuration ends up with my coach being at the end of the train and during the long walk to the platform exit, it is clear msny people are disembarking.

I don't think the cost is bad as some here make out. Book reasonably early and a berth is £140ish and Club Single £170ish (with railcard). Bearing in mind a First Anytime can be similar prices, that isn't bad value.

 

[williamn]

But then they found they didn't want to pay the double price of a solo cabin either......

Given how often it's full, this is clearly not the case.

 

[RT4038]

Given how often it's full, this is clearly not the case.

As capacity was reduced by the new rules, those who were prepared to pay are clearly doing so and filling the reduced capacity up, whereas those not prepared to pay travel by other means (and moan about the high prices on CS).
The problem is that even with the high fares, the service loses a bucket load of money.

 

[RichJF]

If this has been answered please direct me to the post...

What will happen to the rolling stock? I presume the carriages will stay, but will the 66s/73s/92s stay if ScotRail intend to bring it in-house?

 

[Bald Rick]

If this has been answered please direct me to the post...

What will happen to the rolling stock? I presume the carriages will stay, but will the 66s/73s/92s stay if ScotRail intend to bring it in-house?

I would be amazed if there is any change at all.

 

[Nicks]

The UK (Westminster) government contributed £50 million to help start up the Caledonian sleeper,, so in effect Scotland has nationalised a (part) UK asset?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The UK (Westminster) government contributed £50 million to help start up the Caledonian sleeper,, so in effect Scotland has nationalised a (part) UK asset?

It hasn't done anything with it yet.

 

[43096]

If this has been answered please direct me to the post...

What will happen to the rolling stock? I presume the carriages will stay, but will the 66s/73s/92s stay if ScotRail intend to bring it in-house?

I would be amazed if there is any change at all.

GBRf have a 15 year contract through to 2030 for the provision of locomotives and drivers. The contract would almost certainly be novated across to the new operator - so no change.

 

[cakefiend]

According to an FOI someone posted on Twitter, the sleeper is to be remerged with ScotRail to ensure its longterm financial viability.

Got a link to that?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thats fine but Scotrail dont have any customer prescence at what is by far Caledonian Sleepers most important station, London Euston. In my experience (WHL and lowlander) by far the majority of the traffic originates in London and the South east or is internation tourism based there. They are not going to offer an improved customer experience from a call centre in Edinburgh or Fort William.

I would assume the split between London and Scotland is close to 50:50 after all most passengers are travelling across the border most nights. Now I assume there are more interesting things (problems etc) going on North of the border. That is because it is a more complex operation in Scotland than on the WCML. I also think the Scottish will want to "own" CS more than England (choice there would be Avanti). Not merging CS with another TOC/Franchise/OLR achieves nothing. So who would you merge CS with ?.

 

[hexagon789]

Got a link to that?

It's been deleted since my original post it seems.

I wasn't able to find it again.

 

[66701GBRF]

It has been confirmed within that there is no change to GBRF or how it operates the services.

 

[Sm5]

You have to be careful with the accounts of the sleeper, as although they are certified and correct, there are some Movements of cash around the system (onerous contract provisions, etc) that create profit or loss that clouds the real position.





Essntially CS costs around £50m a year to run, and they get back about half that in fares income.

but to correct your other point, roughly 500 people travel on the sleeper each way per day (including seated passengers) so you’d need an A380, and they cost a lot more than £25m.

They dont all travel in the same direction at the same time, do they ?

An ordinary Airbus will do, 2 round trips..

But in reality, if this was scrapped, the passengers would filter away to ordinary trains, planes anyway…

In the big scheme of things 250 each way from Scotland each day is a huge waste of money…, sounds like its not far behind the Royal Train in government costs.

passengers for the highlands might be better served with an additional late train to / from their nearest airport.

 

[Bald Rick]

They dont all travel in the same direction at the same time, do they ?

On the sleeper, they tend to !

I don’t disagree with your sentiments - I worked on the sleepers in the past - but there is a massive political element to this.

 

[Sm5]

I don’t disagree with your sentiments - I worked on the sleepers in the past - but there is a massive political element to this.

Where theres waste, there usually is.

I still think that if this was managed by a Hotel company, in the private sector, this could be turned into something that works.

 

[IKB]

You can book tickets on RST Online.

Unfortunately you can't book a cabin via RST Online, only seated accommodation. You still need to ring up for cabin fares.

The Night Riviera cabins are however bookable via RST Online.

 

[Watershed]

Unfortunately you can't book a cabin via RST Online, only seated accommodation. You still need to ring up for cabin fares.

The Night Riviera cabins are however bookable via RST Online.

That's not correct - you definitely can book CS berths through RST Online. But Priv availability is limited, so you won't always see something come up.

 

[IKB]

Far too much focus on counting the pennies here and not on the broader service the CS offers.

I agree with this sentiment ^ Seems that they are a fair few bean counters on the forum.

I'm not vexed that sleeper services - and many rural routes - don't make a profit. They provide an important social service keeping communities connected. So long as revenue on intercity and key regional routes remain healthy then I'm entirely comfortable with the concept of cross subsidy.

Various public bodies and institutions - eg the health service - don't make a profit. The public (if opinion polls are correct) are happy for their tax pounds to subside them. I'm sure there would be similar support if people were polled about financial support for their local train service.

I doubt the Tories see it that way, obviously.

That's not correct - you definitely can book CS berths through RST Online. But Priv availability is limited, so you won't always see something come up.

I popped in a random date in December for a Euston to Edinburgh train and this is the message in the fares box :

"Caledonian Sleeper Trains -All fares shown include seating accommodation ONLY. Reservations are compulsory and travel cannot be guaranteed if reservations are not made in advance. For further information and to make bookings for fares that include Sleeper Berth accommodation, please visit http://sleeper.scot or telephone 0330 060 0500."

But then having another play around it offered a "Classic Solo" fare one way for about £50. Although it didn't specify if that included the fare or was just for the berth. However, although the mixing deck allowed me to select that fare, when it came to the final checkout screen it said that there were no more reservations available for that service.

I'm fairly proficient at booking online tickets but in future I'll think I'll phone up to be sure of what I'm getting. RST was giving me brain ache.

 

[StephenHunter]

I used the Sleeper back in 2016 to get to Fort William. I didn't get a good sleep due to the creaking of the Mark 3 carriage.

 

[IKB]

I used the Sleeper back in 2016 to get to Fort William. I didn't get a good sleep due to the creaking of the Mark 3 carriage.

I've used both CS Mk3's and those on the Night Rivera.

Main noise issues seem to come from underfloor auxiliary equipment, I assume for air con. On one trip down from Scotland it was vibrating my lower bunk so bad it made me feel sick.

Recent noise issue on Night Riviera which kept me awake was the incessant squeaking for where the two vestibule ends are joined and rub against each other. Not sure what would cure that, perhaps some generous greasing. Mk3's have always seemed to squeak here.

 

[Sleepy]

Unfortunately you can't book a cabin via RST Online, only seated accommodation. You still need to ring up for cabin fares.

The Night Riviera cabins are however bookable via RST Online.

Just input a mid December date for EDB and it quite happily booked through to payment screen for me ?? The only thing RST won't book on Sleepers is seats (and PRIV travel isn't permitted in seats on Cal Sleeper anyway)