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Serco for Sleeper

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JohnB57

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Just for those who are unable to link: -

THE operator of luxury trains in Australia is tipped to win the Caledonian Sleeper franchise to run overnight services between Scotland and London.


Serco is understood to have pledged new coaches and top-notch catering for the sleepers, which ministers want significantly improved to make them “emblematic of Scotland”.

One source said: “The chat is their bid is superb.”

An announcement is expected to be made by next week.

The Scottish Government said yesterday that it was still negotiating with more than one of the three short-listed bidders for the 15-year contract starting next year.

An industry source said: “I hear stuff about new rolling stock, several different ‘classes’ and that they’ve gone to town with the hospitality thing.”

A separate source said: “I have heard Serco appears to be in the lead. I think the rumour is pretty solid.”

Serco runs Great Southern Rail in Australia, which operates four coast-to-coast routes such as The Ghan between Adelaide and Darwin, and the Indian Pacific from Perth to Sydney.

The trains have three classes, including platinum service, which offers “a heightened level of comfort to elevate your onboard experience to a truly global standard of luxurious travel”.

Ministers have encouraged bidders to include en-suite cabins and “premium” dining in their plans as part of a radical overhaul of the sleeper, backed by £110 million from the Scottish and UK governments.

The upgrade, which is expected to take up to three years, would also “showcase the best of Scottish cuisine”.

The trains run between Euston and Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Fort William and Inverness, carrying 270,000 passengers per year.

If the speculation proves correct, it would be a major blow to FirstGroup, which has run the service for ten years as part of the ScotRail franchise.

The Aberdeen-based firm is also bidding to retain control of the rest of ScotRail – the Scottish Government’s biggest contract at some £2.5 billion – as part of a new, separate franchise.

Industry experts warned that awarding the sleeper franchise to Serco could be a difficult political “sell”.

They pointed to the scandal over the company, which manages wide-ranging government contracts, overcharging UK ministers for tagging criminals.

Serco’s operation of Northlink ferries to Orkney and Shetland has also been criticised over staff cuts and service reliability.

The third sleeper bidder is Arriva, owned by Germanoperator Deutsche Bahn.

One source said: “Lots of chat about Serco winning, but there are reputation issues after troubles south of the Border over prisons, plus Northlink up here.”

It is understood the speculation over Serco being in pole position relates to signs the company has been holding more negotiations with the Scottish Government’s Transport Scotland agency than the others.

Another source said: “A pretty heavy, big team of Serco corporate people were seen arriving in Glasgow a few weeks ago. We got a distinct impression they were there to negotiate.”

Professor Jim Gallacher, a former board member of watchdog body Passenger Focus, said Caledonian Sleeper was currently inferior to the best elsewhere, with patchy catering.

He said of the Paris-Madrid sleeper: “It is a very high-quality experience, with en suite facilities and a very good dining car.”

A Scottish Government spokesman said: “Section 2.18 of the invitation to tender says that following the bid evaluation and clarification, Transport Scotland reserves the right to negotiate with one, some, or all bidders.

“This is the stage that we are currently at, and we can confirm that we are engaged in legal negotiations with more than one bidder.”

All three bidders declined to comment.

Is there a market for a multi-tier service?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The Scotsman piece goes on about the quality of the Paris-Madrid sleeper:
Professor Jim Gallacher, a former board member of watchdog body Passenger Focus, said Caledonian Sleeper was currently inferior to the best elsewhere, with patchy catering.
He said of the Paris-Madrid sleeper: “It is a very high-quality experience, with en suite facilities and a very good dining car.”

Pity they didn't check that this train was axed last December...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/journeysbyrail/10515406/Europes-night-trains-hit-the-buffers.html

No mention either of Serco's 10-year experience of UK rail operation (Northern, Merseyrail, DLR) and in operating the Old Dalby test track.
 
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Although I would suggest that the sleeper service is as far removed from Serco's previous ventures as is possible in railway operation terms.

They could have automated sleeper trains (à la DLR), some lovely hospital food served up (à la Serco Catering). They could also use their rail customer service sub-contracting service (à la First Info/IGS). They also have good experience of running static sleeper services (à la Serco Prisons).


They've got it in the bag.
 

SkinnyDave

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Is it still DB Schenker drivers that are used for the Sleeper? And does anyone know if this situation will remain?
 

edwin_m

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The sleeper needs very small numbers of drivers to be based at a range of widely-separated places. It's difficult to see how these could be covered efficiently by an in-house team, as disproportionate numbers of extra drivers would be needed to cover for sickness and other absences (a spare driver from somewhere else might be outbased to cover planned absence but not sickness). Therefore it's likely that the driving would still be subcontracted to a company having greater numbers of staff on the ground. For rather similar reasons traction would probably also be outsourced, with the class 88s bringing DRS into the frame as candidates alongside DBS and Freightliner.
 

Oliver

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www.greatsouthernrail.com.au

Only the small matter of two of the greatest rail journeys in the world.

The Australian routes are entirely for the benefit of tourists. The Scottish sleepers have a wider market and require a very substantial subsidy per head. If they were simply for tourists there would be no real justification for the level of subsidy provided.

Given the economic reality I can't imagine how this service can justify new coaches, though maybe "new" means "new on this route". Serco may well have put in an extravagent offer, and are leaking details to give it traction (no pun intended). My bet is that it will go to First or DB, with more sober proposals.
 

JohnB57

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gingerheid

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I always think of the sleeper as being in competition with the bus, not the Orient Express.
 

carriageline

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Question, why would it affect maintenance? The Caledonians are serviced at Wembley only are they not?


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jimm

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Question, why would it affect maintenance? The Caledonians are serviced at Wembley only are they not?


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No. The key depot for sleeper coach maintenance is Inverness.
 

Steve childs

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They are serviced at Inverness also (my depot) some of the guys I think do not realise that service is also done at Wembley. They fear that all the service work will be taken away and they will be paid off. They do heavy maintenance and over halls at Inverness TMD They have a whole shift dedicated to it plus the guys who service the other stock help out also. I was always told that Inverness was the home of all the carriages and every single one has to make the trip to Inverness every 8 days for service. I hope this does not change for the sake of the workforce.
 

NotATrainspott

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The only non-new rolling stock I can see being used would be if the Nightstar coaches were bought back from Canada. On top of the life-extension requirements for the current stock, the tender requires 'business-class' accomodation that would include en-suite bathrooms. Fitting these (and at least 20% of the berths need to be this standard) to existing carriages might be more trouble than it is worth.
 

scotraildriver

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Is it still DB Schenker drivers that are used for the Sleeper? And does anyone know if this situation will remain?


DB Schenker drivers drive all the Sleepers except the Fort William portion, which is crewed by Scotrail staff. I hope we get to keep this work, it is quite significant for us at Glasgow Queen St.
 

PHILIPE

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The Government are so full of political dogma that they still outsource to private companies including Serco and G4S who have already taken them to the cleaners.
 

jimm

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The Government are so full of political dogma that they still outsource to private companies including Serco and G4S who have already taken them to the cleaners.

This isn't being handled by the Government - the Scottish government is responsible for the sleeper franchise and for Scotrail.
 

Marklund

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The troubles with the DB Talgo were:

  1. Too many seats
  2. Not enough sleeping compartments
  3. no ensuites

Never travelled in the seats, just the couchette and sleeper.
Could have sworn the sleeping compartment had en-suite shower and toilet.

As for the balance of seats/berths/beds, I can't comment.
 

gordonthemoron

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the couchettes were great, the seats were better than the current reclining seats in CNL, not used the sleeper. BordRestaurant was OK but not as good as CNL ones which went to Zurich. At least some of the Talgo sets were acquired by a private operator for tours, dunno how that worked out
 

Western Lord

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So that's even more political dogma than Westminster then.

The scottish sleepers are pure political dogma. There is no viable business case for them and putting en-suite facilities on board will reduce still further the number of revenue earning passengers per car. The chances of "new" stock being provided are zero unless somebody has a bottomless pit of money. On an emotional level, one would like this link to the past to continue, but in the real world, they should be consigned to the dustbin of history. In Europe, overnight services over longer distances than London-Scotland are steadily dying out, there is little or no justification for such trains in the UK.
 

Tim R-T-C

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The scottish sleepers are pure political dogma. There is no viable business case for them and putting en-suite facilities on board will reduce still further the number of revenue earning passengers per car. The chances of "new" stock being provided are zero unless somebody has a bottomless pit of money. On an emotional level, one would like this link to the past to continue, but in the real world, they should be consigned to the dustbin of history. In Europe, overnight services over longer distances than London-Scotland are steadily dying out, there is little or no justification for such trains in the UK.

It all depends how they are advertised. At present the service is quite poorly promoted and seems to be aimed more at people wanting to travel cheaply to/from Scotland and not too concerned by the facilities on board.

Re-invented as a 'hotel on wheels' the service could well attract a lot more users. I'm sure there are plenty of Scottish businesses who would rather send their staff on the sleeper than pay for a flight and a hotel in London and families who would rather have the comfort of a large sleeper cabin than cramming with bags onto a Pendolino for holidays in London.
 
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For business customers the sleeper has many advantages. A full day in London, and save the cost (which is not cheap weekdays) and time of an overnight stay.
Comfort is important, and some en-suite 'cabins' even at a premium price could be popular.
(My brother used to travel on sleepers to Scotland in the 80's and he described them as having square wheels! lol)
The other end of the market I believe a Nightstar type service (reclining / first class type seats) would have a lot more demand these days, one reason being the high cost of peak morning 'anytime' travel. And due to keep rising. Supply & demand etc!
With 'lack of paths' during peak times this is an area with potential for expansion.
Maybe NR track access charges should reflect in the costings for off peak trains, usually running at a slower speed.
 

HSTEd

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HS2 take a big chunk of the business case for the sleeper (especially the Lowland) and any future expansions of high speed rail to Scotland will do the same for the Highland.

It doesn't have that much of a future I'm afraid.
 

Baxenden Bank

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There is a market for sleeper services, the extent of that market is debatable i.e. whether it is required to be profitable or the non financial benefits make it worth subsidising.

Not everyone lives near to an airport, not all airports have services to Scotland, not everyone wants to be treated like **** as airline passengers seem to be, generally.

London to the main scottish cities may no longer require an overnight service given improved daytime frequencies and journey times by rail but try getting to Fort William / Inverness from England, departing / arriving at a reasonable hour.

An article (in Rail I think) suggested that the sleeper to the south-west from Scotland was well used and profitable but removed simply because it was an inconvenience at privatisation.
 

Steve childs

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Who ever gets it is on a no win. Some rarer parts can sting you £3000 with a minimum order quantity of 10. So £30 big ones for a £3 grand part. The new rolling stock for £100m will maybe get you a buffet car and a sleeper delivered and painted. I saw the Royal Scotsman the day on the line and it had all new/refurbished bogies on it and you know how much they charge. It looked awful though, authentic carriages with shiny modern parts
 
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