Service Disruption: Manchester Victoria closed following Arena incident

[rebmcr]

This thread was created explicitly to discuss the impact on rail (and tram) services caused by the extended closure of Manchester Victoria station. Regardless of the cause (and none here disregard the cause), that's a topic that merits is own thread. There's another thread to discuss the terrorist incident more generally.

See the moderator comments at the beginning of this thread. We've been asked to keep this discussion to the stated topic.

Precisely!

 

[WatcherZero]

Armed BTP officers to patrol trains from today.

The BTP have tweeted to say they will start being deployed from this afternoon on trains nationwide using officers displaced by Royal Military Police taking over static guarding duties at transport locations in London and will remain until the security level is reduced.

 

[Starmill]

Well, here I am. Clifton! I can hardly believe there are actually trains stopping here. Nobody seems to be using them, presumably because nobody knows about it. Why would you check? It's very peaceful listening to the birds in the sun though. Kearsley, Farnworth and Moses Gate also get a much later service than usual today.

Hoscar, New Lane and Bescar Lane are also receiving around twice their usual weekday services. Quite why, I have no idea! Does anyone know??

Sadly the 1919 back to Manchester Piccadilly has been cancelled due to a train fault.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TBH it was probably just for ease of planning. Planning one thing then doing the same every hour is easier than planning lots of different things.

 

[Starmill]

TBH it was probably just for ease of planning. Planning one thing then doing the same every hour is easier than planning lots of different things.

So plan 0 of the trains to call at Clifton? I can assure you nobody is going to use them! Or if they do, single figures all day. Calling there is slowing trains down, to no benefit, and they're mostly all late because of the congestion in the Castlefield Junction area and the platforming at Manchester Oxford Road.

You know what, so few people use all of those stations that it would be better to just have no trains calling at any of them and order repalcement buses to run between Salford Crescent and Bolton, calling at Kearsley, Farnworth and Moses Gate, plus selected stops on Bolton Road, where the (very few) people who use those stations might actually want to go to.

 

[johntea]

I've often wondered about the threat of an attack on a mainline rail service, but other than intelligence it must be quite hard to be monitoring all the threats out there especially the 'lone wolf' ones. I believe the attacker of this latest sad incident travelled in via rail and I know the 7/7 bombers did part of their journey by rail from West Yorkshire via Luton but I can't remember the specifics.

Do the BTP still do random passenger bag checks at stations? I got stopped in Leeds one morning for one but it is going back at least 10 years now.

Also, do BTP patrol the arena area at Victoria or is that only done by Arena security staff?

 

[WatcherZero]

Under normal circumstances they do armed patrols of Piccadilly around the clock, they dont patrol Victoria.

 

[Ianno87]

So plan 0 of the trains to call at Clifton? I can assure you nobody is going to use them! Or if they do, single figures all day. Calling there is slowing trains down, to no benefit, and they're mostly all late because of the congestion in the Castlefield Junction area and the platforming at Manchester Oxford Road.

You know what, so few people use all of those stations that it would be better to just have no trains calling at any of them and order repalcement buses to run between Salford Crescent and Bolton, calling at Kearsley, Farnworth and Moses Gate, plus selected stops on Bolton Road, where the (very few) people who use those stations might actually want to go to.

If it was advertised as an alternative to people who currently use Swinton (from where trains have been terminating at Salford Crescent), that would've at least made a small shred of sense. But they haven't done that...

 

[scrapy]

Under normal circumstances they do armed patrols of Piccadilly around the clock, they dont patrol Victoria.

Victoria has had a BTP presence since last year. Usually 1 unarmed PC and 1 PCSO present around the station.

 

[scrapy]

If it was advertised as an alternative to people who currently use Swinton (from where trains have been terminating at Salford Crescent), that would've at least made a small shred of sense. But they haven't done that...

The Clifton stops were apparently a communication error when someone said all stops it was taken literally. As they were advertised in journey planners it was decided to keep them in.

 

[WatcherZero]

Victoria has had a BTP presence since last year. Usually 1 unarmed PC and 1 PCSO present around the station.

Seen PCSO on rare occasion (maybe one in eight visits), never seen any conventional.

 

[Starmill]

The Clifton stops were apparently a communication error when someone said all stops it was taken literally. As they were advertised in journey planners it was decided to keep them in.

I'm quite concerned that someone actually thought it was a good idea for those trains to stop at 'all stations' given doing so means Ince goes up from 1 to 2 trains an hour, Hoscar, New Lane and Bescar Lane go up from 1/2 to 1 train an hour and Clifton goes up from almost nothing to 1 train an hour!

All the while these tiny little used stations are getting massive service increases, the hugely busy Atherton and Walkden are down from 2 to 1 train an hour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To me it's just about KISS - keep it simple, stupid.

Everything calling all stations is a nice simple timetable.

 

[weastebusdepot]

Seen PCSO on rare occasion (maybe one in eight visits), never seen any conventional.

There are usually more around Friday and Saturday evenings (controlling drunks), when local football matches are on, or events at the arena. Not necessarily all visible at the same time.

As for Farnworth, Kearsley and Moses Gate stations, they get a steady stream of regular passengers between 7am and 7pm on weekdays. Hardly anyone on Saturdays though.

 

[Starmill]

To me it's just about KISS - keep it simple, stupid.

Everything calling all stations is a nice simple timetable.

It's not simple though! It's confusing to people to stop at a station that usually has (effectivley) no service. Some people almost got off there thinking it was Bolton. There is a huge capacity crunch because of the displaced rolling stock and myriad cancelled services, and almost every train through Castlefield Jn today all day has been late. Stopping at a station that nobody uses, or doubling the service at tiny halts in the Lancashire countryside for the sake of 'simplicity' is a waste of everyone's time. It hasn't even been advertised!

 

[Starmill]

As for Farnworth, Kearsley and Moses Gate stations, they get a steady stream of regular passengers between 7am and 7pm on weekdays.

That does have a lot to do with there not being trains outside of those times.

 

[M60lad]

Does anybody know whether there's anyway at the moment of getting units marooned at Newton Heath/Dean Lane Depot back to Leeds at the moment?

Reason being is I catch the bus from home to work in Manchester and since the unfortunate incident happened I've been seeing the same 2 158s stabled up in the same places at the depot all week so far. One of the recently repainted/refurbished 158s was there at the beginning of the week but that one seems to have disappeared now.

I'm guessing that with the reduction in service short forming of other services because of the these 158s not being able to go anywhere is not an issue at the moment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's not simple though! It's confusing to people to stop at a station that usually has (effectivley) no service. Some people almost got off there thinking it was Bolton.

Well, frankly, they're stupid. It looks nothing like Bolton and it doesn't say Bolton on the signs.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Have Northern been allowed to recover any of their stranded units yet?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Does anybody know whether there's anyway at the moment of getting units marooned at Newton Heath/Dean Lane Depot back to Leeds at the moment?

Reason being is I catch the bus from home to work in Manchester and since the unfortunate incident happened I've been seeing the same 2 158s stabled up in the same places at the depot all week so far. One of the recently repainted/refurbished 158s was there at the beginning of the week but that one seems to have disappeared now.

I'm guessing that with the reduction in service short forming of other services because of the these 158s not being able to go anywhere is not an issue at the moment.

Easy, Rochdale - Newton Heath ECS?

 

[PHILIPE]

Have Northern been allowed to recover any of their stranded units yet?

They are still there and will be until after the the Police declare it is no longer part of a crime scene, unless they can move themselves.

 

[ashworth]

I didn't know whether this is the correct place to post this but I thought it best here rather than start a new thread in the fares section.

Does anyone know what the arrangements have been regarding travel via Manchester with Advance Tickets where trains are cancelled or rerouted during the closure of Manchester Victoria? I'm not travelling until next Wednesday morning and under the circumstances, if Victoria is still closed, I don't mind by how much journey is delayed. I appreciate what the police are doing, but it would be helpful to know before I set out what the arrangements are.

I've got an Advance ticket for next Wednesday morning from Nottingham to Kirkham and Wesham. I'm booked on an EMT train from Nottingham to Stockport and then an unreserved connection from Stockport to Kirkham and Wesham. I presume that as the Hazel Grove to Blackpool North service is currently not running that I will be allowed to remain on the EMT train to Manchester Oxford Road to get the Blackpool North train, diverted from Victoria, which stops at Kirkham and Wesham.

I'm actually travelling to Marton on the outskirts of Blackpool, but find it quicker and much cheaper to use Kirkham and Wesham and then get the 61 bus from outside the station. Is there any possibility, under the circumstances, that I would be able to get the earlier faster Manchester Airport to Blackpool North train and travel through to Blackpool North? I know that it doesn't stop at Kirkham and Wesham and this wouldn't normally be allowed but would the conductor be able to sell me a single from Kirkham and Wesham to Blackpool North so that I could then get the bus from Blackpool cutting my journey time by almost 1 hour.

 

[scrapy]

If the Hazel Grove to Blackpool service is not running I would jump on the earlier express service and attempt to buy the Kirkham to Blackpool ticket office the guard. Given the circumstances I don't think you'll have a problem but technically it not valid as the train doesn't stop at Kirkham. Worst thing they can do is offer you a ticket from Preston to Blackpool in which case you have the choice either to but that or wait for the stopper to Kirkham. Depending on timings you may be eligible for delay repay on your original ticket.

 

[Olympian]

I didn't know whether this is the correct place to post this but I thought it best here rather than start a new thread in the fares section.

Does anyone know what the arrangements have been regarding travel via Manchester with Advance Tickets where trains are cancelled or rerouted during the closure of Manchester Victoria? I'm not travelling until next Wednesday morning and under the circumstances, if Victoria is still closed, I don't mind by how much journey is delayed. I appreciate what the police are doing, but it would be helpful to know before I set out what the arrangements are.

I've got an Advance ticket for next Wednesday morning from Nottingham to Kirkham and Wesham. I'm booked on an EMT train from Nottingham to Stockport and then an unreserved connection from Stockport to Kirkham and Wesham. I presume that as the Hazel Grove to Blackpool North service is currently not running that I will be allowed to remain on the EMT train to Manchester Oxford Road to get the Blackpool North train, diverted from Victoria, which stops at Kirkham and Wesham.

I'm actually travelling to Marton on the outskirts of Blackpool, but find it quicker and much cheaper to use Kirkham and Wesham and then get the 61 bus from outside the station. Is there any possibility, under the circumstances, that I would be able to get the earlier faster Manchester Airport to Blackpool North train and travel through to Blackpool North? I know that it doesn't stop at Kirkham and Wesham and this wouldn't normally be allowed but would the conductor be able to sell me a single from Kirkham and Wesham to Blackpool North so that I could then get the bus from Blackpool cutting my journey time by almost 1 hour.

Current arrangements and advice, including ticket acceptance by other TOCs, is at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/163668.aspx.

 

[ashworth]

If the Hazel Grove to Blackpool service is not running I would jump on the earlier express service and attempt to buy the Kirkham to Blackpool ticket office the guard. Given the circumstances I don't think you'll have a problem but technically it not valid as the train doesn't stop at Kirkham. Worst thing they can do is offer you a ticket from Preston to Blackpool in which case you have the choice either to but that or wait for the stopper to Kirkham. Depending on timings you may be eligible for delay repay on your original ticket.

Thanks for that.
That's exactly what I was thinking. At worst I would only have to get a single from Preston to Blackpool, but under the circumstances I would be surprised if the guard would not sell me a Kirkham to Blackpool ticket even though technically it wouldn't be valid.
Hopefully things will be back to normal by next Wednesday but if not I just wanted to know what the options were before leaving Nottingham. Although I am beginning to wonder with it being bank holiday week whether Victoria may stay closed a bit longer.

 

[Crossover]

Does anybody know whether there's anyway at the moment of getting units marooned at Newton Heath/Dean Lane Depot back to Leeds at the moment?

Reason being is I catch the bus from home to work in Manchester and since the unfortunate incident happened I've been seeing the same 2 158s stabled up in the same places at the depot all week so far. One of the recently repainted/refurbished 158s was there at the beginning of the week but that one seems to have disappeared now.

I'm guessing that with the reduction in service short forming of other services because of the these 158s not being able to go anywhere is not an issue at the moment.

Newton Heath won't be a problem I don't think as, as far as I am aware, they can run ECS out of depot to Mills Hill, Stalybridge or Ashburys (and from Ashburys to Piccadilly and places further away) so the only way they can't go is into Victoria itself

 

[chrissawer]

Northern are now saying the station has suffered structural damage and won't reopen until it has been repaired.

From http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...nchester-bombing-live-updates-latest-13075807

Following the terror attack at Manchester Arena on Monday, Manchester Victoria Station, which links directly to the arena, is still part of an ongoing police investigation.

Due to the nature of the attack, the station has suffered structural damage that still needs to be properly assessed and repaired. Until this work is completed, the station will remain closed.

Northern is currently unable to accurately estimate when the station will re-open. As a result man of the services that would normally run into Manchester Victoria are unable to do so. This means there is significant disruption in Manchester and the surrounding areas.

Please check nationalrail.co.uk or northernrailway.co.uk before travelling.

We will do everything we can to keep our customers up to date with more information as we know more.

 

[Starmill]

Well, frankly, they're stupid. It looks nothing like Bolton and it doesn't say Bolton on the signs.

It's not unreasonable for them to think it's Bolton as we were arriving at the time we should have been at Bolton and it was the stop after Salford Crescent.

Today the services are skipping Clifton, but still doubling up at Ince and the West Lancashire halts, and there's still only 1tph.

 

[Buspilot]

Strange that Northern's website, at this moment, does not have the structural damage notice on it and the links from the MEN and ITV stories on structural damageto Northern's website, don't show it either.

 

[Chester1]

Northern are now saying the station has suffered structural damage and won't reopen until it has been repaired.

From http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...nchester-bombing-live-updates-latest-13075807

It looks like the Metrolink stop will reopen before the rest of the station. I doubt that the explosion will have damaged the new roof due because the foyer walls and arena structure will have absorbed it. The damage will be to the structure above the through platforms so its possible one or both terminating platforms could reopen before for the rest of the station too. It wouldn't be of help to long distance commuters but it would make a big difference to local services.