Services That Really Should Exist...

[MidnightFlyer]

If you owned your own Open Access Operator, what routes/services would you introduce?

Or

Is there any services that need to make a comeback (like Liverpool on the XC network or Bpl N-Euston services)?

 

[Invincibles]

Nottingham to Coventry though I have no idea how it would cross the WCML.

Nottingham to Birmingham via Leicester (possibly with the extension to Lincoln)

I always found it odd that Leicester went from having 3tph to Nuneaton to just two.

Better linking of the East Midlands to the North West would also be good, the HST from Leicester to Stockport non stop was overkill but something that avoided Sheffield would be great. If connections could work with a Derby train and a Nottingham train at Chesterfield Platform 3 then using the Erewash valley would not be too much of a disadvantage for the new service.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Always suprised me that:

• There is nothing Manc-Derby/Leicester
• Anglo-Scotland (WCML) services are first stop Warrington BQ
• Lincoln is cut off the IC map
• Liverpool isn't on XC
• There is no Windermere/Blackpool N-London trains

 

[Edward111]

crewe to northwich without going via chester

 

[Invincibles]

The Anglo Scotland WCML thing makes a bit of sense since there is the Voyager that follows ten minutes later to get people from Crewe.

It would be great if they had ordered enough new Pendolinos to enable all of the Birmingham to Edinburgh/Glasgow 221s to be replaced by extended London - Birmingham - Scotland Pendolinos (as they do on some busy days) and then use the spare 221s to operate somewhere just off the wires to London (Bolton, Blackpool, Lakes etc) as variants of the Lancaster - London path.

Manchester to Burnley would be another North West "gap"

 

[MidnightFlyer]

The Anglo Scotland WCML thing makes a bit of sense since there is the Voyager that follows ten minutes later to get people from Crewe.

It would be great if they had ordered enough new Pendolinos to enable all of the Birmingham to Edinburgh/Glasgow 221s to be replaced by extended London - Birmingham - Scotland Pendolinos (as they do on some busy days) and then use the spare 221s to operate somewhere just off the wires to London (Bolton, Blackpool, Lakes etc) as variants of the Lancaster - London path.

Manchester to Burnley would be another North West "gap"

I meant if you live in Watford, you must now go to Euston, and Rugby, which used to have about 10 direct Scotland trains a day, now has about 1.

Living in Blackburn, you never hear the end of the Todmorden Curve in the local paper.

 

[87031]

Liverpool on X country is a good shout, cant really fathom why theres nothing direct anymore. London Midland service is frequent but there should be some direct services in place, a HST diagram would be nice.

Liverpool-Glasgow/Edinburgh is another plus Welsh Transpennine Llandudno-York etc

 

[GingerSte]

Always suprised me that:

• There is nothing Manc-Derby/Leicester
• Anglo-Scotland (WCML) services are first stop Warrington BQ
• Lincoln is cut off the IC map
• Liverpool isn't on XC
• There is no Windermere/Blackpool N-London trains

Definitely agree with Liverpool on XC. I would also put Hull onto XC. If they decide to run two trains per hour via Leeds rather than Doncaster, there may be call for an open access company to run a 2-hourly Hull/Birmingham service calling at Hull, Selby, Doncaster, Rotherham, Sheffield, Derby, Burton and Brum.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Definitely agree with Liverpool on XC. I would also put Hull onto XC. If they decide to run two trains per hour via Leeds rather than Doncaster, there may be call for an open access company to run a 2-hourly Hull/Birmingham service calling at Hull, Selby, Doncaster, Rotherham, Sheffield, Derby, Burton and Brum.

Hows about

Hull
Brough
Selby (or Goole)
Donny
Meadowhall
Sheffield
Derby
Burton
Bhm New St?

 

[GingerSte]

Hows about

Hull
Brough
Selby (or Goole)
Donny
Meadowhall
Sheffield
Derby
Burton
Bhm New St?

So adding Brough, and using Meadowhall instead of Sheffield. I could easily live with that. (I certainly didn't forget Brough in my list )

I would possibly add Chesterfield and possibly Tamworth to the list. This service could then be used to allow the longer distance XC services to run faster.

Thinking about it, should the Derby-Birmingham section stop at Lichfield and Sutton Coldfield, and provide a link between them and the north?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So adding Brough, and using Meadowhall instead of Sheffield. I could easily live with that. (I certainly didn't forget Brough in my list )

I would possibly add Chesterfield and possibly Tamworth to the list. This service could then be used to allow the longer distance XC services to run faster.

Thinking about it, should the Derby-Birmingham section stop at Lichfield and Sutton Coldfield, and provide a link between them and the north?

Do you get paths due to the intense CrossCity service. Do you call at City or TV. Do people in Sutton Coldfield really want to go to Selby??? probs best sticking via Tamworth: everyone on the Lichfield route would probs just go into Bhm N St anyway

 

[rail-britain]

Always suprised me that:
Anglo-Scotland (WCML) services are first stop Warrington BQ

This is effectively only a recent introduction however it removes connections but increases the benefits of direct services north of Crewe

Here are my proposals :
London Euston - Birmingham - Stafford - Crewe - Preston - Carlisle - Kilmarnock - Ayr
Manchester - Preston - Carlisle - Motherwell - Stirling - Perth - Inverness / Aberdeen

Glasgow - Edinburgh - Newcastle - York - Peterborough - Norwich

 

[MidnightFlyer]

This is effectively only a recent introduction however it removes connections but increases the benefits of direct services north of Crewe

Here are my proposals :
London Euston - Birmingham - Stafford - Crewe - Preston - Carlisle - Kilmarnock - Ayr
Manchester - Preston - Carlisle - Motherwell - Stirling - Perth - Inverness / Aberdeen

Glasgow - Edinburgh - Newcastle - York - Peterborough - Norwich

Extended Ayr-Stranraer?

Blackpool N/East Lancs - Preston - Crewe - Northampton - Euston;

Huddersfield - Penistone - Barnsley - Sheffield - East Mids Pkwy - St Pancras;

So many more, I'll do them later.

 

[GingerSte]

Do you get paths due to the intense CrossCity service. Do you call at City or TV. Do people in Sutton Coldfield really want to go to Selby??? probs best sticking via Tamworth: everyone on the Lichfield route would probs just go into Bhm N St anyway

- I don't know if there are enough paths on the cross city line, but this is only one train per hour or one per 2 hours.
- Whichever is busier - I would presume City but am not sure.
- People in Sutton Coldfield might not want to travel to Selby, but you would get some traffic to Burton and Derby which is currently unnacounted for. Plus, it would give them an opportunity to change onto other northbound services. Plus, if they built a cheap and cheerful Station at Alrewas for the National Memorial Arboretum, then this would attract some passenger use.

The idea is that an open access TOC would run services slightly different to the usual franchises. People in Lichfield will not get on a train to Derby if it means going via Brum, as it will add a lot of time. They would, however, get on a direct service that took 20 minutes.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

- I don't know if there are enough paths on the cross city line, but this is only one train per hour or one per 2 hours.
- Whichever is busier - I would presume City but am not sure.
- People in Sutton Coldfield might not want to travel to Selby, but you would get some traffic to Burton and Derby which is currently unnacounted for. Plus, it would give them an opportunity to change onto other northbound services. Plus, if they built a cheap and cheerful Station at Alrewas for the National Memorial Arboretum, then this would attract some passenger use.

The idea is that an open access TOC would run services slightly different to the usual franchises. People in Lichfield will not get on a train to Derby if it means going via Brum, as it will add a lot of time. They would, however, get on a direct service that took 20 minutes.

Yep. Paths would probably be free then. Lichfield City gets more passsengers, and is in the City itself (hence the name!!!!), but TV gets services (ie. Stafford, Rugeley, Nuneaton, Tamworth etc). Tthe random HL layout may make City a wee bit better

 

[Dave R]

Agree with linking Lincoln-Nottingham with Leicester-Birmingham

Walsall-Wolverhampton

Increase Manchester-Stoke to 2tph with one going to stafford and calling at all of those stations CT/LM closed south of Stoke.

Divert one of the XC manchester services to Liverpool and divert a LM Liverpool service to Manchester.

Liverpool-Glasgow/Edinburgh (every 2 hours alternating with the Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh)

and whilst I'm at it...

London-Brussells-Amsterdam

London-Brussells-Cologne (maybe happening anyway)

Birmingham-Europe via WCML and NLL

 

[lm321412]

Heres a few:

Cardiff - Glasgow/Edinburgh via Birmingham

Birmingham - Lincoln via Leicester & Nottingham

Pwhelli/Aberystwyth - London via Birmingham

Liverpool - Stansted Airport (Liverpool - Norwich varient)

Hourly XC Trains from Lichfield City

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Agree with linking Lincoln-Nottingham with Leicester-Birmingham

Walsall-Wolverhampton

Increase Manchester-Stoke to 2tph with one going to stafford and calling at all of those stations CT/LM closed south of Stoke.

Divert one of the XC manchester services to Liverpool and divert a LM Liverpool service to Manchester.

Liverpool-Glasgow/Edinburgh (every 2 hours alternating with the Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh)

and whilst I'm at it...

London-Brussells-Amsterdam

London-Brussells-Cologne (maybe happening anyway)

Birmingham-Europe via WCML and NLL

Wolves-Walsall: whack a free 153 on for an hourly service (maybe connecting with the London or scotland train at Wolves)

Extension to Stafford: couldn't agree more - except for Norton Bridge: NR took the bridge out to replace it, and, like Polesworth, found it unprofitable to put it back again. Suprise, suprise.

Whilst your on LM/TPE/XC Liv & Manc - I take it you mean:

Put the XC to Liv via Crewe (calling there, Runcorn and maybe Liv Sth Parkway);
Put the LM to Picc via Stockport (calling Wilmslow and Stockport);
Put an additional service TPE to Liv (don't take them away from manc its bad enough as it is!): via St Helens Central (calling there, Wigan NW and Preston).

Some great shouts there mate
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Heres a few:

Cardiff - Glasgow/Edinburgh via Birmingham

Birmingham - Lincoln via Leicester & Nottingham

Pwhelli/Aberystwyth - London via Birmingham

Liverpool - Stansted Airport (Liverpool - Norwich varient)

Hourly XC Trains from Lichfield City

Never been many Wales-Scotland trains in recent years has there?
Aberystwyth-Marylebone got scrapped because it could put WSMR out of business.
Do you mean CrossCountry or CrossCity trains at Lichfield??

 

[Lampshade]

If it could hypothetically be reopened:

Stalybridge > Guide Bridge > Man Picc > New Mills Central > Chinley > Millers Dale > Bakewell > Darley Dale > Matlock > Derby > East Mids Parkway > St Pancras

 

[MidnightFlyer]

If it could hypothetically be reopened:

Stalybridge > Guide Bridge > Man Picc > New Mills Central > Chinley > Millers Dale > Bakewell > Darley Dale > Matlock > Derby > East Mids Parkway > St Pancras

Ambtious! Unfortunately I think tourism boards would rather people could walk, cycle, dog walk and unicycle through the tunnels that would need reopening in order to do this. Its a sad, sad situation.

 

[lm321412]

Do you mean CrossCountry or CrossCity trains at Lichfield??

Cross Country, hourly CrossCity trains would be a decrease in service

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Cross Country, hourly CrossCity trains would be a decrease in service

Good point! What services do you propose would go via Lichfield, as oppose to serving Tamworth/Burton?

 

[GingerSte]

Ambtious! Unfortunately I think tourism boards would rather people could walk, cycle, dog walk and unicycle through the tunnels that would need reopening in order to do this. Its a sad, sad situation.

You could get lots of unicycles and connect them up to provide some sort of train...

 

[IanXC]

Could the Hull-Birmingham and York-Llandudno services be formed of

Hull
Brough
Selby
York
Doncaster
Meadowhall
Sheffield
Derby
Burton
Birmingham New St
Wolverhampton
Telford Central
Shrewsbury
Wrexham
Rhyl
Llandudno Junction
Llandudno

Although when I read it back it sounds like it would have all the hallmarks of CrossCountry's trouble with short journeys!

Benefits would be improved service between Hull and York (currently 1 train per 2 hours - in wishful thinking land this could go via a reopened Minsters route), extra capacity between York and Birmingham, and provides a link from Yorkshire to North Wales...

 

[Dave R]

@MattE2010

My idea for the XC Liverpool services is almost a 'swap'.

Liverpool

LM New St-Smethwick Galton Bridge-Wolverhampton-Stafford-Crewe-Winsford-Hartford-Acton Bridge (every 2h)-Runcorn-Liverpool South Parkway-Lime St *effectively as now*

XC New St-Wolverhampton-Stafford-Crewe-Runcorn-Liverpool South Parkway-Lime St.

Manchester

LM New St-Coseley-Wolverhampton-Penkridge-Stafford-Stoke-Macclesfield-Stockport-Man Picc

XC New St-Wolverhampton-Stafford-Stoke-Stockport-Manchester *effectively as now*

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I must admit that i'm not familiar with the Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh Service but having looked at it I think its should be completely hourly (as opposed to hourly but with 'gaps' http://www.tpexpress.co.uk/train-timetables/timetables.htm?show=all#TimetableResults (see table 11) with a split at preston and calling at Wigan N W-St Helens-Lime St (as you stated)

 

[lm321412]

Good point! What services do you propose would go via Lichfield, as oppose to serving Tamworth/Burton?

One of the current xx03/xx30 Voyagers (ex BHM) would go via Lichfield City so would be off to York/Newcastle/Glasgow/Dundee.

Southbound it would be one of the xx53/xx28 Voyagers (ex DBY) which go to Bristol/Taunton/Plymouth/Penzance


Also have to throw another one in for the sheer hell of it; Aberystwyth - Lincoln

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Could the Hull-Birmingham and York-Llandudno services be formed of

Hull
Brough
Selby
York
Doncaster
Meadowhall
Sheffield
Derby
Burton
Birmingham New St
Wolverhampton
Telford Central
Shrewsbury
Wrexham
Rhyl
Llandudno Junction
Llandudno

Although when I read it back it sounds like it would have all the hallmarks of CrossCountry's trouble with short journeys!

Benefits would be improved service between Hull and York (currently 1 train per 2 hours - in wishful thinking land this could go via a reopened Minsters route), extra capacity between York and Birmingham, and provides a link from Yorkshire to North Wales...

Maybe best to keep services separate:
Hull-Bhm N St:
Hull
Brough
Selby
Donny
Sheffield
Derby
Tamworth
Bhm New St

York-Llandudno:
York
Garforth
Leeds
Dewsbury
Huddersfield
Stalybridge
Man Victoria
Warrington BQ
Chester
Flint
Rhyl
Colwyn Bay
Llandudno Jn
Llandudno


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One of the current xx03/xx30 Voyagers (ex BHM) would go via Lichfield City so would be off to York/Newcastle/Glasgow/Dundee.

Southbound it would be one of the xx53/xx28 Voyagers (ex DBY) which go to Bristol/Taunton/Plymouth/Penzance


Also have to throw another one in for the sheer hell of it; Aberystwyth - Lincoln

Abersystwyth-Lincoln:
Borth
Machynlleth
Newtown
Welshpool
Telford central
Wolves
S & Dudley
Bhm New St
Burton
Derby
Nottingham
Newark Castle

 

[Sapphire Blue]

Extended Ayr-Stranraer?

Blackpool N/East Lancs - Preston - Crewe - Northampton - Euston;

Huddersfield - Penistone - Barnsley - Sheffield - East Mids Pkwy - St Pancras;

So many more, I'll do them later.

Huddersfield must be the the largest town/city without a single direct London service?:cry:

Unless of course you know different!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

You could get lots of unicycles and connect them up to provide some sort of train...

Or tell them all to go do it somewhere else and reinstate the railway line
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Huddersfield must be the the largest town/city without a single direct London service?:cry:

Unless of course you know different!

Leave it with me... Middlesbrough?

 

[GingerSte]

Could the Hull-Birmingham and York-Llandudno services be formed of

Hull
Brough
Selby
York
Doncaster
Meadowhall
Sheffield
Derby
Burton
Birmingham New St
Wolverhampton
Telford Central
Shrewsbury
Wrexham
Rhyl
Llandudno Junction
Llandudno

Although when I read it back it sounds like it would have all the hallmarks of CrossCountry's trouble with short journeys!

Benefits would be improved service between Hull and York (currently 1 train per 2 hours - in wishful thinking land this could go via a reopened Minsters route), extra capacity between York and Birmingham, and provides a link from Yorkshire to North Wales...

If you ran you Selby-York section via Sherburn In Elmet and Church Fenton, you could avoid the ECML "proper" for that section. You could also use platforms 6 and 7 (thanks to Wikipedia) rather than the through platforms.

In fact, would doing that make a local service (perhaps with a station at Thorpe Willoughby) possible?