Services with the most "train reverses here"

[Tomp94]

Anyone know which passenger services have the most change of ends for a driver?

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Anyone know which passenger services have the most change of ends for a driver?

I think we've done this one before.

The most I can think of is the South Western Railway service from London Waterloo to Corfe Castle - four changes of ends: at Yeovil Junction, Yeovil Pen Mill, Weymouth and Wareham.

Not sure if it's the same driver throughout, though.

 

[SouthernR]

Stourbridge Town - Stourbridge Junction ?

 

[Taunton]

The 1960s dmu service from Scarborough to Middlesbrough also had four reversals, in a relatively short run, just outside Scarborough station, twice at Whitby, and at Battersby.

Personal record was three, Edinburgh to Taunton, at Carstairs, Birmingham New Street and Gloucester. But again, long ago.

 

[swt_passenger]

March thread about reversals en route, on a quick scan through that SWR service mentioned by @lxfe_mxtterz wasn’t ever beaten:

Trivia: Current services where the train reverses ends, mid-journey.

(Carved out from another current thread about choosing the "safest" place to travel on a train)... Must be a few routes across the network. Some examples... Middlesbrough -> Whitby (Northern service, train reverses at Battersby Junction): Leeds -> Manchester Victoria via Calder Valley...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[godfreycomplex]

I think we've done this one before.

The most I can think of is the South Western Railway service from London Waterloo to Corfe Castle - four changes of ends: at Yeovil Junction, Yeovil Pen Mill, Weymouth and Wareham.

Not sure if it's the same driver throughout, though.

It wasn’t, no. Changed at Salisbury and Weymouth I believe.

In terms of a driver diagram it’s probably Stourbridge. With mainline TOCs I’m not sure but Windsor & Eton Central drivers are allowed to do I think 10 round trips so that’s 20 (well, 19) end changes.

 

[ABB125]

GWR services from Malvern/Worcester to various destinations beyond Bristol reverse twice - at Gloucester and Bristol Temple Meads.

 

[Wtloild]

Norwich-Liverpool does twice, Ely & Sheffield.

 

[Neptune]

Stourbridge Town - Stourbridge Junction ?

Have I misundestood the aim of this thread? I read it as being reversals on one service (ie reversals for an end to end journey with one headcode). Each service has a different headcode. I’m sure the crew diagrams have many diagrams but on one headcode per journey.

In my railway career the most I’ve had was Selby to Wakefield with reversals at Bradford Interchange, Huddersfield & Wakefield Kirkgate.

 

[dk1]

Norwich-Liverpool does twice, Ely & Sheffield.

Wouldn’t be the same driver though.

 

[Neptune]

Wouldn’t be the same driver though.

But it doesn’t state drivers diagrams in the title.

 

[dk1]

But it doesn’t state drivers diagrams in the title.

First post sort of does.

 

[Neptune]

First post sort of does.

Fair point lol

 

[SouthernR]

Have I misundestood the aim of this thread?

Probably not. I don't think I did either, but there was one way to find out.

 

[Western 52]

TFW Manchester to Milford Haven services reverse twice, at Swansea and Carmarthen.

 

[superjohn]

Are continental journeys allowed? If they are some of the long distance Eurocity trains will be in with a shot. For example EC218 from Graz to Erfurt reverses no less than five times on its thirteen hour journey; at Selzthal, Bischofshofen, Munich, Stuttgart and Frankfurt. Same loco throughout as well.

vagonWEB » Řazení vlaků » 2021 » ÖBB EC » EC 218 Chiemgau

www.vagonweb.cz

 

[QueensCurve]

I think we've done this one before.

The most I can think of is the South Western Railway service from London Waterloo to Corfe Castle - four changes of ends: at Yeovil Junction, Yeovil Pen Mill, Weymouth and Wareham.

Not sure if it's the same driver throughout, though.

Not a British example, but the service I took 3 between 1966 and 1981 from Calais as far as Innsbruck reversed several times. Ones or twice in Northern France during the night (I don't recall which or where), plus Zürich, Sargans and Buchs.

There is now a new route at Sargans which obviates reversal there.

 

[miklcct]

What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?

 

[Neptune]

What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?

But how do you serve stations like Bradford Interchange or Castleford or any other number of stations where a reversal is necessary to provide a service to that station?

 

[miklcct]

But how do you serve stations like Bradford Interchange or Castleford or any other number of stations where a reversal is necessary to provide a service to that station?

Bradford Interchange is clearly not suitable for multi-line operation as there is a section with 2 tracks only, which limits the capacity.

 

[Neptune]

Bradford Interchange is clearly not suitable for multi-line operation as there is a section with 2 tracks only, which limits the capacity.

Services at BDI can arrive simultaneously and since the last remodelling depart simultaneously.

 

[swt_passenger]

What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?

Not every junction faces the right way. DMU and EMU operation makes it easy to reverse direction en route in just a slightly longer than normal station stop. I suspect this allows for through services that would never have been attempted in the days of hauled stock.

 

[The exile]

What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?

Because you have major city stations which are dead- end termini, but people want through trains. When these were built, steam locomotives had limited range and putting the replacement engine on the other end and going back out the way you had come was often at worst no slower than replacing a loco at the same end ( still applies where a change from electric to diesel is required). Many of the “record holders” in terms of numbers of reversals are “ once a day type services” (like the Scotland - Southwest train that would reverse at Edinburgh, Carstairs, Birmingham and Gloucester) or overnight trains, where the rationale for providing through services despite multiple reversals should be obvious. The Germans are slowly trying to eliminate their dead- end stations, but it’s a very long and expensive job.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?

Be tricky for a XC service from Birmingham New Street (to say somewhere on the South Coast such as Bournemouth) to call at a principal intermediate station like Reading without any reversal being necessary.

 

[Watershed]

What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?

The default reversing allowance for most units is 3 minutes (it's obviously more for longer trains). That's not much more than the 1-2 minute minimum dwell you might expect for a reasonably large station.

Obviously it's always better to avoid reversals where possible but there's no choice if you want stations like Bradford Interchange to have through services.

 

[Kite159]

Be tricky for a XC service from Birmingham New Street (to say somewhere on the South Coast such as Bournemouth) to call at a principal intermediate station like Reading without any reversal being necessary.

Ah but in other countries those stations won't exist with XC serving Reading West etc

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Ah but in other countries those stations won't exist with XC serving Reading West etc

In a similar way to Ryanair not calling at the airport you might (possibly) think it should be?

 

[The exile]

Be tricky for a XC service from Birmingham New Street (to say somewhere on the South Coast such as Bournemouth) to call at a principal intermediate station like Reading without any reversal being necessary.

Oh, I don't know! Banbury - Bicester - High Wycombe - Greenford - Hayes & Harlington - Slough - Reading! Would take ages, deprive Oxford of connections to a lot of the country, but it would save blocking one of Reading's platforms for 5 or 6 minutes, and thus be so much more efficient (on paper). (Irony button "off")

In most cases, stations where many services reverse have track layouts specifically designed to optimise reversal and the reversal takes very little longer than a rather leisurely stop. In fact, I'm often left thinking that punctuality would benefit if reversal stops were actually given longer!

Ah but in other countries those stations won't exist with XC serving Reading West etc

As indeed used to be done with Saturday extras that were basically there to soak up the demand to stations other than the one where reversal took place. Still a (rare) feature at Reading and Bristol into the 1990s.

 

[507020]

The Lancaster - Morecambe - Heysham Port has to reverse at Morecambe, but in the previous timetable until 16 May there was a return Heysham Port - Morecambe - Carnforth - Lancaster service with 3 reversals. With the 2 services operating back to back, this necessitated 5 reversals in the space of an hour!

 

[The exile]

What's the point of having services which reverse mid-way? Aren't such services inefficient because a reversing train blocks the line for a long time?

The answer will often lie in that word “service”. Any service provision will involve balancing “efficiency” with providing a service that actually satisfies customer demand. The two will often conflict.