Set-down Only

[Mark_re]

Hi all,

I have a London Terminals - Southampton Central weekly season. Could you tell me whether I could board the 0120 from Wimbledon (0105 ex-Waterloo) and travel on to Southampton? It is 'set-down only', but since my ticket is valid from Waterloo, would that be a problem?

I know I'm chancing it, if the train were diverted or whatever... And if it's a big risk, I can always just double-back to Clapham Junction.

Thanks,

Mark

 

[yorkie]

The risk is being denied access to the platform or someone blocking your entry on to the train. But your ticket is valid.

 

[bb21]

Is the 0105 set down only at Wimbledon? It should be set down only beyond Woking iirc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
[Edit] Just checked. It appears that they have now made it set down only. It now calls at 0127.

 

[b0b]

But your ticket is valid.

I think there is disagreement on whether any ticket is valid for boarding at a station where the train is set-down only.

 

[jopsuk]

The other risk with aiming for a "set down" train (and at that time of night, if the barriers are in operation you may well not be allowed through) is that if the train is able to run early, it can run early, as I understand it- as it is not picking up if the line is clear there is no need to wait for booked time?

 

[LexyBoy]

The other risk with aiming for a "set down" train (and at that time of night, if the barriers are in operation you may well not be allowed through) is that if the train is able to run early, it can run early, as I understand it- as it is not picking up if the line is clear there is no need to wait for booked time?

Indeed it can, but it couldn't be more than a few minutes early if Clapham Junction is a scheduled stop.

There could be a problem getting the platform right, as it may not call at the expected platform late at night, and of course won't be announced at the station.

I think there is disagreement on whether any ticket is valid for boarding at a station where the train is set-down only.

I agree it's not very clear - since the only action the TOC can take is to sell a ticket from the last scheduled calling point it should logically be OK to board if you already hold such a ticket. However the train is advertised as set-down only so you could legitimately be prevented from boarding I suppose, but couldn't be penalised when on-board.

 

[yorkie]

I think there is disagreement on whether any ticket is valid for boarding at a station where the train is set-down only.

If that was true, then TOCs would not sell a ticket from the previous stop. But they do (sometimes), so a ticket from the previous stop must be valid!

e.g. a passenger boards a train that has run non-stop from Stoke to Watford, for travel between Watford (set down only) and Euston. In theory, Virgin could charge the customer for the journey from Stoke to Euston, therefore a Stoke to Euston ticket must be valid, as otherwise Virgin would be selling an invalid ticket.

However the passenger can be denied access to the platform or blocked from entering the train.

 

[b0b]

If that was true, then TOCs would not sell a ticket from the previous stop. But they do (sometimes), so a ticket from the previous stop must be valid!

I think the argument goes that if caught getting on at a set-down stop, you have no valid ticket, and the excess is equivalent to the price of the fare from the previous non-set down stop to the next stop valid for set-down.

Search for the thread discussing whether you can board set-down only trains with an ALR.

 

[yorkie]

I think the argument goes that if caught getting on at a set-down stop, you have no valid ticket, and the excess is equivalent to the price of the fare from the previous non-set down stop to the next stop valid for set-down.

You only have no valid ticket if your ticket is not valid from the last pick up point. But the OP has! Yes, a fare from the previous pick up point to the next set down stop is valid, the OP already has paid that fare.

Search for the thread discussing whether you can board set-down only trains with an ALR.

I remember that thread well, and the only thing out of it that I need to remember is that one of the most regular users of the ALR, Mr Tom Cairns, contacted ATOC who admitted that no excess could be charged. Not everyone at ATOC is knowledgable and people within ATOC do sometimes disagree. But some people do know how to contact the right people, and I know several people who have got some good quotes off the real experts at ATOC.

 

[b0b]

I remember that thread well, and the only thing out of it that I need to remember is that one of the most regular users of the ALR, Mr Tom Cairns, contacted ATOC who admitted that no excess could be charged. Not everyone at ATOC is knowledgable and people within ATOC do sometimes disagree.

I'll go with that then, I must have missed that one.

 

[swt_passenger]

IIRC from the posters at stations before the timetable change it has been made set down only at Wimbledon (and Surbiton) so that they don't have to run a replacement bus from those stations when they route it via the Windsor side - which I'd expect to be fairly regular with the new policy of overnight engineering works rather than weekends. So your season will not be much help if you get to Wimbledon and it isn't running.

 

[Capybara]

Two comments really, neither of which are directly relevant to the question. Firstly, you have rightly pointed out that it is a risky business anyway because of potential diversions. I often notice that this service is diverted, replaced (all or partly by 'bus) or cancelled so it most certainly is a risky business. Secondly, I have had cause on two or three occasions to catch the last train from Southampton to Waterloo the stock of which (it used to at least) was used to form the 1:05. On each occasion I could only be pleased that I was not travelling on that train because of the amount of human detritus clambering on after a long evening's entertainment in London!

 

[bb21]

Seriously?

The last train from Southampton (assuming you mean the 2300) is scheduled in at Waterloo at 0102. Is it allowed to turn around so soon (3 minutes) to form the 0105, with no checks being done (I assume)?

 

[Capybara]

The last time I did it was in slam-door stock which tells you how long ago it was. 2003 perhaps. Or it may even have been a Pompey service as I've done that as well. Whatever it was it got in at about 00:50. It was the state of the people getting on that was the point, not the precise timing (or train, even)

 

[Stigy]

That train used to be booked to call at Wimbledon to set down and pick up...It's obviously been revised now. Sorry if this has been stated already. It used to be booked at Surbiton and Woking, and set down only at Farnborough I believe.

It always used to be booked at the same time at Wimbledon (0127hrs?), even when being diverted via East Putney, which added a further 10-minutes to the journey I seem to recall.

Edit: I just noticed that SWT Passenger has already mentioned what I have.... ;(

 

[Aictos]

It really does depend on the company involved as a example Hull Trains are set down only at Stevenage heading to London meaning you cannot board it to travel to London regardless of what ticket the holder has.

I belive the First Scotrail Glasgow Queen Street to Edinburgh services are set down only at Haymarket.

As to the OP, personally I wouldn't want to risk it.

 

[Mark_re]

Hi all,

Thanks for your advice. I risked it and was fine, although not foolproof, I checked and it was on LDBs as arriving into Wimbledon at 0120. On arrival at the station (by last tube), it was listed on the arrivals board as coming in on platform 8. There were about 10 pax who boarded at Wimbledon.

Mark

 

[LexyBoy]

On arrival at the station (by last tube), it was listed on the arrivals board as coming in on platform 8. There were about 10 pax who boarded at Wimbledon.

Glad it worked out. Out of interest, was there any announcement about the service other than the arrivals board? I take it there was no comment from the guard about the boardees?

 

[bb21]

If there were as many as 10 people boarding and I was the guard, I wouldn't risk it by challenging them either.

 

[yorkie]

Glad it worked out. Out of interest, was there any announcement about the service other than the arrivals board? I take it there was no comment from the guard about the boardees?

The last time I recall boarding at a set down stop, we were welcomed on board by the guard, who apologised for the delay. We had sneaked on because platform staff are not nearly as welcoming. This was Virgin at Nuneaton in around 2005. Also in 2004 we boarded at Stratford, at the front behind the loco. The guard came up to the front and insisted we walk back to standard but did not claim the tickets were invalid.

 

[12CSVT]

I recall a few years ago the Norwich - Liverpool Street services which called at Stratford were announced on the automatic announcements despite being shown as set down only in the GBTT.

 

[Statto]

Hi all,

Thanks for your advice. I risked it and was fine, although not foolproof, I checked and it was on LDBs as arriving into Wimbledon at 0120. On arrival at the station (by last tube), it was listed on the arrivals board as coming in on platform 8. There were about 10 pax who boarded at Wimbledon.

Mark

If that's the regular amount of passenger boarding that train, then it may be worth getting rid of the Set Down only rule from the timetable, especially as passengers would transfer to that train from the Tube.

 

[swt_passenger]

If that's the regular amount of passenger boarding that train, then it may be worth getting rid of the Set Down only rule from the timetable, especially as passengers would transfer to that train from the Tube.

See my post earlier post (number 11 on page 1) - it's only been made set down only from December for the reasons given there, basically so it can run via Richmond and Staines without having to provide any onward bustitution...