Setting the DRA

[gjm]

Hi All,

Just a quick question on when setting the DRA is required

I pass a single yellow and stop at the next station, the next signal is red and can be clearly seen, however the signal that is red is 300m, 400m away, do I set the DRA?

I believe there is an rule regarding the distance of the signal or length of the train but I cant find it

Thanks

 

[Zontar]

It's not a starting signal, but it's still red. People will have their own opinion, but for me, that dra is going on. So many possible distractions at a station stop.

 

[MA8141]

You must set the DRA before your train stops at the platform after passing a single yellow and stopping at a platform where no starting signal is provided. TW1 10.3

 

[gjm]

likewise, if its not a starting signal then i reset the dra anyway as my last signal was single yellow and i have no starting signal?

There seems to be an opinion that if your train can clear the platform then you do not need to set the DRA?? Apparently buried in the rule book somewhere.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

The short answer is yes.
The long answer is that the DRA is required to be set (1) when entering or leaving the cab, (2) when standing at a platform starting signal (until the signal is cleared or you get permission to pass it at danger, or until you receive a movement authority in ERTMS) and (3) when you have stopped at a station having received a cautionary aspect at the previous signal.
So in the above case you would set it because you passed a yellow before entering the platform, even though you can see the next signal.

 

[Dieseldriver]

10.3 When stopping at a station platform where no platform starting signal is provided​

driver
You must set the DRA when your train stops at a station platform after having:

• passed a signal showing a single yellow aspect or a semaphore distant signal at caution
• been authorised to pass at danger the signal, or an EoA without an MA, on the approach to the platform
• entered the platform under the authority of a position-light signal or subsidiary signal.

You may set the DRA before your train stops at the platform.
You must only reset the DRA when you receive the ‘ready-to-start’ signal.

 

[AJD]

Yeah it's definitely when you get the bells even if you can see the signal in the distance clear from red. Remember being told this very, VERY firmly by an operations trainer on the first day I ever drove a service train under instruction. Needless to say it was imprinted from that moment.

There have been several instances of drivers being (correctly) given the ready to start when the signal several hundred yards ahead is at danger. They've gone on to report the dispatcher and guard! Not doing the driving grade any justice there

 

[gjm]

Rule book SS1 section 1 definitions
Platform starting signal

A stop signal located so that one of the following applies.

• If the longest passenger or empty coaching stock train that uses the platform is stopped at it, part of the passenger accommodation is still alongside the platform.
• The leading end of the train has passed over the AWS equipment for that signal before the train is dispatched.

 

[whoosh]

Yes you should set it. Get used to setting it in that location, because if you don't, you'll get used to thinking you don't have to set it there, and then one day it will be foggy and you won't be able to see the signal and you'll be in the bad habit of not setting it there (same as you always do mode)...

 

[johnr57]

DRA ?

 

[Jimini]

DRA ?

Driver's reminder appliance.

Wiki

A driver's reminder appliance (DRA) is a manual switch in the driving cab of a passenger train. When operated it glows bright red and prevents the driver from being able to apply power.[1] It was introduced in the design and operation of United Kingdom passenger trains in the 1990s[2] in response to a series of railway accidents where train drivers had passed a signal at danger when starting away from a station,[3] a so-called "Start Against Signal".[4]

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Yeah it's definitely when you get the bells even if you can see the signal in the distance clear from red. Remember being told this very, VERY firmly by an operations trainer on the first day I ever drove a service train under instruction. Needless to say it was imprinted from that moment.

There have been several instances of drivers being (correctly) given the ready to start when the signal several hundred yards ahead is at danger. They've gone on to report the dispatcher and guard! Not doing the driving grade any justice there

As a guard my reaction to that situation, assuming the signal was visible from the platform, was to have a brief conversation with the driver. Essentially "I see we have a red ahead, do you want normal dispatch with two on the buzzer or would you prefer 6 (draw forward)?" Technically the answer should be the first option and that's what I always used to get but it was a way of ensuring the driver had a moment to think about it just in case they hadn't set the DRA.

 

[Undiscovered]

As a guard my reaction to that situation, assuming the signal was visible from the platform, was to have a brief conversation with the driver. Essentially "I see we have a red ahead, do you want normal dispatch with two on the buzzer or would you prefer 6 (draw forward)?" Technically the answer should be the first option and that's what I always used to get but it was a way of ensuring the driver had a moment to think about it just in case they hadn't set the DRA.

I'd buzz Drive and see if he wanted to contact Signaller from the platform.

Rather be stuck in a platform than 200m outside and going nowhere. Big risks of self/uncontrolled evacuation with a platform so close.

 

[Class93]

Absolutely set it.

If something happens on the platform or train (person collapses, a fight etc) you will completely forget the signal as it’s a low stress item that simply won’t remain in your mind.

Having it set will take you back to setting off slowly and being ready for whatever the next aspect is.

 

[bengley]

Yes, you must set it in this situation.

You must set the DRA before your train stops at the platform after passing a single yellow and stopping at a platform where no starting signal is provided. TW1 10.3

There is no requirement to set the DRA while still moving in any circumstances. You may do so, however, if you wish in this situation.

 

[43066]

Hi All,

Just a quick question on when setting the DRA is required

I pass a single yellow and stop at the next station, the next signal is red and can be clearly seen, however the signal that is red is 300m, 400m away, do I set the DRA?

I believe there is an rule regarding the distance of the signal or length of the train but I cant find it

Thanks

Explained above why you do need to set it. Are you a trainee driver? If so I would hope you would have been taught this as it’s one of the more important aspects of the rules course!

 

[MA8141]

Yes, you must set it in this situation.



There is no requirement to set the DRA while still moving in any circumstances. You may do so, however, if you wish in this situation

My wording of must instead of may was wrong sorry, thank you for pointing it out. I set it on the move but that’s just me !

 

[bengley]

My wording of must instead of may was wrong sorry, thank you for pointing it out. I set it on the move but that’s just me !

No worries, no need to apologise!

I used to set it on the move at what I considered to be high risk locations when I drove passenger trains. Now it's not so critical because I generally only stop at signals anyway.

 

[Krokodil]

I'd buzz Drive and see if he wanted to contact Signaller from the platform.

Rather be stuck in a platform than 200m outside and going nowhere. Big risks of self/uncontrolled evacuation with a platform so close.

For me it depends on the location. At one place I sign I'll have noticed that I was leaving the previous station on a double yellow and will have looked to see if it's just a train crossing the junction ahead as usual. In that circumstance I'll buzz six to draw down if the signal hasn’t cleared by the time that we're ready to leave. Anything out of the ordinary though and I'll ring up.

 

[craigybagel]

I'd buzz Drive and see if he wanted to contact Signaller from the platform.

Rather be stuck in a platform than 200m outside and going nowhere. Big risks of self/uncontrolled evacuation with a platform so close.

As a guard my reaction to that situation, assuming the signal was visible from the platform, was to have a brief conversation with the driver. Essentially "I see we have a red ahead, do you want normal dispatch with two on the buzzer or would you prefer 6 (draw forward)?" Technically the answer should be the first option and that's what I always used to get but it was a way of ensuring the driver had a moment to think about it just in case they hadn't set the DRA.

We have a location on our route card where of the train has 5 cars or more, the signal a few hundred yards beyond the platform, which is always at danger for stopping trains, will not clear no matter how long you wait. Technically it's not a starting signal, but as it's well known drivers and guards will normally reach agreement at the start of the journey over how they're going to work it.

Managers have been known to be in waiting at that station to check that drivers have applied the DRA.

 

[D3WY]

If the previous signal was yellow and the station has no starter signal than you set DRA as a reminder red ahead, you will also have the sunflower as a reminder. A starting signal is defined by if the AWS magnet is inside the station ie within the platform area. If the aws is outside the station it's NOT a starting signal.

So if you come in on single yellow and it has a starting signal that changed to a proceed aspect (not red) than you wouldn't set DRA

If you come in on a green there is a red 800 yards away but the AWS is not within the platforms (ie its not a starting signal) you don't set DRA.

Again if AWS magnet is in the station the signal it relates to IS a starting signal

 

[Flange Squeal]

There is no requirement to set the DRA while still moving in any circumstances. You may do so, however, if you wish in this situation.

And this is a definite positive as on some stock setting the DRA on the move has the effect of also cutting out the dynamic brake, which while not a major thing in itself does mean as you're coming up to said station and/or red you've now also got to adjust your normal braking style slightly to suit the overcompensating friction brake (which in some of my past experience hasn't always felt smooth, but rather juddery).

 

[D3WY]

And this is a definite positive as on some stock setting the DRA on the move has the effect of also cutting out the dynamic brake, which while not a major thing in itself does mean as you're coming up to said station and/or red you've now also got to adjust your normal braking style slightly to suit the overcompensating friction brake (which in some of my past experience hasn't always felt smooth, but rather juddery).

Southern have it in the professional driving policy that DRA is never set whilst moving, for the reasons you state about the effect on the different braking systems

 

[Kneedown]

Just to add to previous answers, whilst it is permissible to set the DRA before coming to a stop in the platform, be aware that on some traction, setting the DRA may render the dynamic brake inoperative, so you will be relying on discs and pads only.
I seem to remember 323s were affected by this, and was the cause of several station overruns back in Central days. Of course, modifications may have been implemented since then.

EDIT: I must have missed Flange Squeal's comment stating the same thing. Tired eyes after a long shift.

 

[PLY2AYS]

You must set the DRA before your train stops at the platform after passing a single yellow and stopping at a platform where no starting signal is provided. TW1 10.3

Before? That’s setting yourself up for trouble, IMO.
I never set my DRA until my train is at a complete stand… never know if and when you’ll need power.

 

[43066]

Before? That’s setting yourself up for trouble, IMO.
I never set my DRA until my train is at a complete stand… never know if and when you’ll need power.

I can see an argument for it in the situation where you are setting it while braking down to a platform on a single yellow with no visible signal. That way it’s already set prior to stopping, and you’re less likely to forget to set it due to station duties.

That said my TOC’s driving policy prohibits setting it on the move, notwithstanding the rule book position.

 

[PLY2AYS]

I can see an argument for it in the situation where you are setting it while braking down to a platform on a single yellow with no visible signal. That way it’s already set prior to stopping, and you’re less likely to forget to set it due to station duties.

That said my TOC’s driving policy prohibits setting it on the move, notwithstanding the rule book position.

Just seems like an obstacle for taking power if needed.

However, I’d argue that, unless there’s some real severe gradient/incline, you likely won’t need power again and that comes down to competent driving and route/traction knowledge.

I’d like to know other freight driver’s opinions on this and whether they set it on the move?

 

[craigybagel]

I can see an argument for it in the situation where you are setting it while braking down to a platform on a single yellow with no visible signal. That way it’s already set prior to stopping, and you’re less likely to forget to set it due to station duties.

Which is exactly why I set it, in 3 certain locations where this scenario applies, as soon as I pass the single yellow. It's done with and I can focus on stopping at the station (and at the most frequent location for this scenario, the two level crossings and the low adhesion area that exist between the signal and the platform).

This has been complicated somewhat by the introduction of stock with dynamic brakes. On these I've taken to putting my hand on the DRA when I pass the signal but not actually switching it on until I'm going slowly enough that it's purely using friction brakes at that point.

Just seems like an obstacle for taking power if needed.

However, I’d argue that, unless there’s some real severe gradient/incline, you likely won’t need power again and that comes down to competent driving and route/traction knowledge.

It's pretty rare that you'd want to take power after passing a single yellow anyway - other than departing from stations.

I’d like to know other freight driver’s opinions on this and whether they set it on the move?

As far as I know DRA isn't a requirement on freight locos?

 

[PLY2AYS]

Which is exactly why I set it, in 3 certain locations where this scenario applies, as soon as I pass the single yellow. It's done with and I can focus on stopping at the station (and at the most frequent location for this scenario, the two level crossings and the low adhesion area that exist between the signal and the platform).

This has been complicated somewhat by the introduction of stock with dynamic brakes. On these I've taken to putting my hand on the DRA when I pass the signal but not actually switching it on until I'm going slowly enough that it's purely using friction brakes at that point.

It's pretty rare that you'd want to take power after passing a single yellow anyway - other than departing from stations.

As far as I know DRA isn't a requirement on freight locos?

I think these are all really reasonable approaches. I’m in agreement with all of them.

I think it all comes down to Personal Safety/Protection Strategy really… every driver will do things slightly differently (as long as we’re all safe and in accordance with the rulebook, that’s what matters)

Interesting point about freight though… I know they’re a different world to us passenger lot, was just curious! Does anyone know of any freight that do use DRA?

 

[MA8141]

Just seems like an obstacle for taking power if needed.

However, I’d argue that, unless there’s some real severe gradient/incline, you likely won’t need power again and that comes down to competent driving and route/traction knowledge.

I’d like to know other freight driver’s opinions on this and whether they set it on the move?

I’m not aware of any freight that has DRA, happy to be corrected. All freight tractions I've signed don’t have DRA. As a freight driver I didn’t even know was it was so the point about needing power etc is a valid point as I’d be powering towards a red some times. Which isn’t something for the faint hearted !