Shenfield Metro before TfL Rail

[Taunton]

I think that broadly the 306s all left Liverpool Street on the Electric line, and all the Southend/Main trains left on the Main line. At Stratford the Main line expanded to have both platform and through roads, which is how the Main trains served it, converging beyond, and how the fast 306s were switched by a parallel move to the non-platform Main line. The article, I recall, described how often nonstops would also be routed through the Main platform line because it just gave a bit of an advantage to the flow.

Despite the separate boxes, and separate again Control, there were some upsides to this, in that the signalmen could physically eyeball the trains, and judge to the second when to clear after them, or what speed they were doing.

In my final enthusiast days, early teenage, time of the mag article (which may well have inspired me), if in London I took the Chingford local out to Bethnal Green a couple of times in the peak and stood at the country end of the Up platform there observing it all. Recollections are the considerable speed the electrics had got up to for what seemed still inner city, and the periodic thunder of a Class 37 passing a few feet away, opening up after slowing for the Cambridge line turnout. Never been there since, despite it being only a few miles from the house nowadays, and very regularly looking down on the Stratford layout from the entrance overbridge to Westfield shopping centre. Must go back sometime. Is there anything left on the Electrics now the Elizabeth has opened?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I am fascinated by the operation of the "Shenfield Metro" Shenfield - Liverpool Street service (now extended to Paddington and becomes part of Elizabeth line). It is now basically a tube line in all but name, with the 9-car 345 trains all crush-loaded in peak hours running every 4 to 5 minutes, on its own dedicated tracks.

I have read that, in the Greater Anglia days, the line was operated by class 315 trains, with 7 trains per hour in peak hours and 6 trains per hour off-peak, compared to 12 peak / 8 off-peak now.

How did this line cope with the peak demand by then when it only provided less than half of the current capacity, considering the class 315 trains were shorter and had less standing space than the current trains? Did the line have exclusive use on the slow lines on the Great Eastern Main Line between Liverpool Street and Shenfield? Also, how was the Sunday service back then?

Funny, I've developed a fascination for the Shenfield Metro recently too, certainly is a very unique operation in London.

 

[30907]

Didn't the planner in that era know that running trains uniformly gives the absolutely maximum capacity?

They no doubt did, but their criteria may have included providing the fastest possible journey time to the busiest stations (hence only providing a 10min service to the likes of Maryland) and using rolling stock to the maximum (hence the Ilford terminators).

 

[306024]

Didn't the planner in that era know that running trains uniformly gives the absolutely maximum capacity? Since when has the service become a true metro where all trains stop all all stations running frequently on the electric line?

The Great Eastern has had many excellent planners, I learnt a massive amount from them, especially designing timetables with parallel moves. But one of the secrets is there has been relatively little staff turnover, they are experts in their own field. However it is not just about planning trains, the passsenger loadings were indeed considerable, and that certainly did influence the calling patterns.

 

[Taunton]

Didn't the planner in that era know that running trains uniformly gives the absolutely maximum capacity? Since when has the service become a true metro where all trains stop all all stations running frequently on the electric line?

Unfortunately, although that may be true from the railway operator's perspective, the passengers don't present themselves with the same evenness, and it becomes known when there are commonly high peak points, say at 1710 and 1740, coinciding with the many who finish in adjacent offices exactly 10 minutes before, and there are many of these overlaid on one another. Furthermore the arrangement kept passengers for different stations segregated adequately; you only have to look at the current Elizabeth issues on the GWML where morning inbound passengers from say Acton find train after train arrives full.

 

[Magdalia]

Didn't the planner in that era know that running trains uniformly gives the absolutely maximum capacity?

It may maximise capacity but it doesn't necessarily provide the best service for passengers or the best utilisation of resources, especially where nearly everyone is travelling to/from a terminus at one end of the route. Taking Liverpool Street-Shenfield as an example, a uniform service includes a lot of mileage with nearly empty trains at the Shenfield end which is saved by turning trains short. Passengers at Romford, Harold Wood and Brentwood now have a worse service than when they had fast trains 50 or 60 years ago. Taken together, turning short and running fast both get resources "back to start" more quickly reducing the requirement for both units and drivers.

 

[AM9]

Where possible, I assume that trains leaving sidings at Ilford and Gidea Park would use the mains. Although I never looked to check, did they use the up ML to up EL loop that bypasses the Ilford flyover, - if necessary waiting at Manor Park for their path?

Unfortunately, although that may be true from the railway operator's perspective, the passengers don't present themselves with the same evenness, and it becomes known when there are commonly high peak points, say at 1710 and 1740, coinciding with the many who finish in adjacent offices exactly 10 minutes before, and there are many of these overlaid on one another. Furthermore the arrangement kept passengers for different stations segregated adequately; you only have to look at the current Elizabeth issues on the GWML where morning inbound passengers from say Acton find train after train arrives full.

From a passenger's point of view, the system generally worked well. My problem was that the service certainly wasn't cast in my favour, usually Seven Kings 17:07 to Shenfield 17: 32; Shenfield 17:40 to Chelmsford 17:56; Chelmsford 18:00 to Colchester 18:22. If anything failed (including me to get the 17:07), it would be Shenfield 18:10 all stops to Colchester 18:55 in a bouncy 6-a-side compartment.

 

[Bald Rick]

I have the relevant WTT. It says EL for the xxx8s. As said previously, other trains prevented them going ML. They were booked to pass Ilford 2 minutes after the terminating train that had departed at xxx4.

group D ran Main Line from Bow to Goodmayes

So you agree, they went ML from “somewhere around Stratford to at least Seven Kings”, like I said?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Unfortunately, although that may be true from the railway operator's perspective, the passengers don't present themselves with the same evenness, and it becomes known when there are commonly high peak points, say at 1710 and 1740, coinciding with the many who finish in adjacent offices exactly 10 minutes before, and there are many of these overlaid on one another. Furthermore the arrangement kept passengers for different stations segregated adequately; you only have to look at the current Elizabeth issues on the GWML where morning inbound passengers from say Acton find train after train arrives full.

The segregation of passenger for destination was incredibly elegant I think (imagine the joy of an "outer" Electric passenger having first stop Romford on a Gidea Park terminator) , and Ilford short workings , particularly in the up morning peak would have been welcome to the residents of the Cranbrook area , a short walk from the York Road entrance.

I believe in the 1947 scheme there was a center turnback siding at Brentwood , something we considered for Crossrail 1. (too tight for today's or even then , standards)

Of course , when the 306's were new , they were a massive step up in comfort to the old steam stock. As Fiennes said , they took a long time to scope out the new timetable and delivered very well in performance and financial results.

Like the Watford DC , always had a very soft spot for the Shenfield service ......

 

[Magdalia]

So you agree, they went ML from “somewhere around Stratford to at least Seven Kings”, like I said?

In 1964 yes, in 1974 no.

 

[PeterC]

So you agree, they went ML from “somewhere around Stratford to at least Seven Kings”, like I said?

My memory of early commutes around 1970 is that the Romford fasts switched to/from the main just outside Romford and just at the country side of Stratford. The homeward journey was always from platform 18. Regular commuters knew just where the doors would be and a series of queues would form on the platform.

The timetable changed in 70 or 71 and the service went all the way on the EL. I remember being annoyed about the slightly slower journey. To those disagreeing about EL or ML, you are both right, just looking at different timetables!

In the 70s and 80s Stratford was not a significant destination and the ML platforms saw little use. The peak Southend semi fast crossed between Main and Electric to use platforms 5 or 8 and ran on the EL into Liverpool Street.

 

[Alfie1014]

The segregation of passenger for destination was incredibly elegant I think (imagine the joy of an "outer" Electric passenger having first stop Romford on a Gidea Park terminator) , and Ilford short workings , particularly in the up morning peak would have been welcome to the residents of the Cranbrook area , a short walk from the York Road entrance.

I believe in the 1947 scheme there was a center turnback siding at Brentwood , something we considered for Crossrail 1. (too tight for today's or even then , standards)

Of course , when the 501's were new , they were a massive step up in comfort to the old steam stock. As Fiennes said , they took a long time to scope out the new timetable and delivered very well in performance and financial results.

Like the Watford DC , always had a very soft spot for the Shenfield service ......

Pretty sure that there was originally a turnback at the country end of Brentwood. You can see the track separation in this photo but as you say it wouldn’t meet modern standards. View attachment 128232

 

[Magdalia]

Where possible, I assume that trains leaving sidings at Ilford and Gidea Park would use the mains.

No they used the Electric Line as they had to get into platforms 15-18 at Liverpool Street to form their next down working. The complicated trains were those that started ECS from Aldersbrook: they mostly ran through the line behind the flyover at Ilford to join the up Electric at Forest Gate. The evening ECS moves from Aldersbrook had been moved over from the Ilford Car Sheds in the middle of the day.

In both 1964 and 1974 the evening peak Gidea Park terminators mainly ran back as passenger trains, but the Ilford terminators mainly as ECS. However, in the morning most of the Liverpool Street-Gidea Park moves were also ECS.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Pretty sure that there was originally a turnback at the country end of Brentwood. You can see the track separation in this photo but as you say it wouldn’t meet modern standards. View attachment 128232

Yes there was ! - we found a black and white , (no sound alas) in the BTF archives of the first day of the Shenfield Electrics. Quite fascinating , seeing the various Mayors on the route meeting the new service ,and showing it to some old GE lags , they were able to identify some of the characters. Preserved 306017 was the middle unit of the first "public" train from Liverpool St.

Another old lag , who did his training on the GE mentioned the special term "Emcars" for ECS workings , and there was a special description of "Diamond Emcars" for priority ECS , presumably those in bounce back mode getting a good run back to the suburbs for another trip. (or vice versa)

My first contact with this service must have been about 1976 when we did a visit to Liverpool Street to see the peak , and were captivated by the clockwork regularity of train after train running into the station , with platform segregation and literally a platform full would be effortlessly despatched and the cycle continued. We stood on the old lattice foot bridge , and after a short time , were questioned by a supervisor - on explaining we were hicks from Wales he just laughed in a typical Cockerney manner and told us we were very welcome to be there. Probably told his mates later in the pub.

 

[Springs Branch]

Funny, I've developed a fascination for the Shenfield Metro recently too, certainly is a very unique operation in London.

Like the Watford DC , always had a very soft spot for the Shenfield service ......

Yes, reading these recollections of Shenfield electrics, and how an efficient & intensive peak service was operated back in the day, reminded me of that other characterful "not a tube, but tube-like frequency" London suburban route - the Watford DC line. At least before commuter demand and train frequency dropped off, for whatever reason, in the late 1960s & 70s.

The Watford DC service had some significant differences to the GEML electrics as discussed above - all trains were all stops, for example. But the timetabling and regulation intrigue in this case lay in the multiple origins or destinations at the southern end (Bakerloo tube, or Euston, or Broad Street two ways) and the odd train which went direct to/from the Croxley Green branch rather than Watford Jn. The regular commuters probably needed to quickly learn the B-codes on the front of the Class 501s.

The Harrow & Wealdstone to Willesden Jn "core" had a 3-minute peak-hour headway, and its own unique signalling arrangements to cope with the high train frequency - LMS-vintage permissive searchlight colour-lights, which allegedly could result in long, literally nose-to-tail queues of stationary trains in the event of a blockage.

I am considering starting a parallel thread on the Watford line in its historical heyday up to the 1960s but suspect few, if any, forum members will have real-life experience of that era, before a period of decline set in. Anyhow, back to the GEML . . .

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Yes, reading these recollections of Shenfield electrics, and how an efficient & intensive peak service was operated back in the day, reminded me of that other characterful "not a tube, but tube-like frequency" London suburban route - the Watford DC line. At least before commuter demand and train frequency dropped off, for whatever reason, in the late 1960s & 70s.

The Watford DC service had some significant differences to the GEML electrics as discussed above - all trains were all stops, for example. But the timetabling and regulation intrigue in this case lay in the multiple origins or destinations at the southern end (Bakerloo tube, or Euston, or Broad Street two ways) and the odd train which went direct to/from the Croxley Green branch rather than Watford Jn. The regular commuters probably needed to quickly learn the B-codes on the front of the Class 501s.

The Harrow & Wealdstone to Willesden Jn "core" had a 3-minute peak-hour headway, and its own unique signalling arrangements to cope with the high train frequency - LMS-vintage permissive searchlight colour-lights, which allegedly could result in long, literally nose-to-tail queues of stationary trains in the event of a blockage.

I am considering starting a parallel thread on the Watford line in its historical heyday up to the 1960s but suspect few, if any, forum members will have real-life experience of that era, before a period of decline set in. Anyhow, back to the GEML . . .

Didn't the DC lines have express services up until the 90s?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Before 1980 it was run with 9-car 306 units,

That format is that which I remember back in the day, although by the second half of the 70's I was commuting between Chelmsford (the as was 'new' Chelmer village) and Liv Street on 310/312's, so didn't get to ride the 306's on a regular basis. A (later) colleague on SWR metals was a fitter in those days at Ilford, so had a good knowledge of 306's etc.

 

[Route115?]

I've never lived on the line, but like a lot of railways the enhancements have been during the off-peak.

Looking at a 1982 timetable there could be up to 30 trains per hour on the inner & Southend lines. The repeating pattern every ten minutes was:

Fast Southend Victoria first stop Billericay

Slightly slower Southend first stop Harold Wood

Stopping service to Shenfield ommiting Maryland, Forest Gate & Manor Park

All stns to Shenfield

There was also a second all stns Shenfield train at the hight of the peak only, making a total of five trains every ten minutes, three of which are now covered by Elizabeth line trains and two still operated by East Anglia trains.

As usual, the real enhancements came off-peak. In 1982 there were two trains every twenty minutes:

Southend V, Stratfird, Ilford, Romford & all stns

All stns to Gidea Park

First Gt Eastern enhanced the service so that the Southend trains ran non stop from Stratford to Shenfield and replaced the twenty minute Shenfield service with a doubled ten minute to Shenfield - a significant enhancement.

This remained until Crossrail when the local off-peak service increased from six to eight tph.

The peak service at 14 tph including two starters from Liverpool St running to Shenfield will be less than that in 1982 with the deletion of the third train every ten minutes, although the Elizabeth trains will be longer and the height of the peak is less intense post covid. There are also fewer trains to Southend (although there are now through Southminster trains).

 

[Cricketer8for9]

My railway recollections start in the early 80s. The London peak uplift was huge; those of us on the South Central and South Eastern sides got to see odd numbered headcodes from Cannon St and London Bridge. I may be wrong but I think the fast lines from London Bridge to Norwood Jct had no off peak services at some point.

I did spent some late 80s time at Stratford in the PM peak. My recollection is that the central line to electric BR line cross platform interchange was used by the Shenfield and Gidea Park terminators but also by Southend Semi-Fast services which went Electric to Main at the country side of Stratford. The latter were on a 10 min frequency.

 

[Crisso]

I commenced commuting in early 1969 between Brentwood and Liverpool Street so, was a regular user of the peak hour service that called at all stations from Southend Victoria to Harold Wood then Stratford and finally Liverpool Street.
My recollections as an enthusiast, etc., I can confirm that this service usually used the Electric Lines between Shenfield and Harold Wood Junction (I believe it was named), just to the east of the Gidea Park sidings, where the A127 Southend Arterial Road crosses on an overbridge, where it crossed over. Very occasionally, the services only joined the main line at the end of Gidea Park Station by the single lead crossovers.
As mentioned by another poster previously, at this time the layout at Stratford was very different from today, with the through main lines plus, on the North side, up and down loops serving respective platforms, at which the aforementioned service normally used. This did allow non-stopping Stratford services (of which there were far fewer in those days), to overtake in both direction.
One particular such down service at that period deserves a special mention - the 17.51 if I remember correctly - in addition to the usual stops, this train additionally called at Ilford on the main line!
This overall service provided a fast and good peak service between Brentwood and London at that time.