Shockingly terrible day for railway fatalities (21/04)

[fowler9]

Lime Street is up the wall at the moment. Someone threatening to jump from a bridge near Edge Hill. Not sure what the outcome has been but no trains moved for an hour or so.

 

[HLE]

Time off, through the summer with full pay, will help with the mental anxiety, that's if the guaranteed sunday's are also included, since the cica payments have since ceased.

Fatalities will always be a part of working on the railway. It's something some drivers/guards don't experience, however those that work within the industry are fully aware it could be a possibility. 'jumpers' are an unpleasant fact however hopefully, none were children, as these are the one's that drivers fear the most...
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Let's not forget Brian Harvey's attempt...

I've heard quite a few stories of drivers never getting back in the cab after a fatality involving children. Can believe it as well.

What would happen in this circumstance though ? Surely they can't be kept on the payroll forever if they cannot bring themselves to get back in the cab?
Would they be put on light duties?

 

[transportphoto]

Sadly I have had the opportunity to work along side a young man who died on scene after being struck by an ECS Abellio GA train near Ipswich in the late hours of Monday night.

 

[A-driver]

I've heard quite a few stories of drivers never getting back in the cab after a fatality involving children. Can believe it as well.



What would happen in this circumstance though ? Surely they can't be kept on the payroll forever if they cannot bring themselves to get back in the cab?

Would they be put on light duties?

They will be allowed reasonable time off (define reasonable...) but after so long they will need to make a decision and help will be offered. They will be assessed by their manager and a company doctor before being allowed back on the footplate but if they look unlikely to return they will be offered a payout like anyone medically retired or helped to find alternative work within the company (if there are any suitable jobs going that is). If they find an alternative role most TOCS either offer a parachute scheme of pay down from drivers pay over a few years or will offer something like 80% of drivers salary honouring future driver pay rises.

 

[dk1]

Sadly I have had the opportunity to work along side a young man who died on scene after being struck by an ECS Abellio GA train near Ipswich in the late hours of Monday night.

This person was on the phone to the emergency services at the time threatening to commit suicide & telling the operator they where on the railway. It was at this point the warning horn was heard before the phone conversation abruptley ended.

 

[Antman]

A friend of mine who is a BTP officer said that we (ie the emergency services) are paid to deal with the aftermath of such incidents but railway staff are not.

 

[transportphoto]

This person was on the phone to the emergency services at the time threatening to commit suicide & telling the operator they where on the railway. It was at this point the warning horn was heard before the phone conversation abruptley ended.

I only met the chap once, just about three weeks ago, but that is a painful read. Must have been even more painful for the Call Taker and indeed the driver.

 

[route:oxford]

With wall-to-wall news coverage of political parties each proclaiming 5 years of doom, misery and ruined lives if the wrong "brand" is chosen and 2 more weeks of it to go, it is sadly understandable why some who may well be be teetering on the verge are hitting rock bottom.

It's time for consideration from the politicians.

 

[HLE]

They will be allowed reasonable time off (define reasonable...) but after so long they will need to make a decision and help will be offered. They will be assessed by their manager and a company doctor before being allowed back on the footplate but if they look unlikely to return they will be offered a payout like anyone medically retired or helped to find alternative work within the company (if there are any suitable jobs going that is). If they find an alternative role most TOCS either offer a parachute scheme of pay down from drivers pay over a few years or will offer something like 80% of drivers salary honouring future driver pay rises.

Thanks for the reply. Indeed the question is 'reasonable time'.

 

[A-driver]

Thanks for the reply. Indeed the question is 'reasonable time'.

It is rare for anyone to be rushed back but everyone is different. I know people who have been back within days and others who after a few weeks have had management on their backs asking if they will be coming back soon.

To get to the point of not coming back will be months, verging on a year often as, like any medical retirement, you are looking at waiting for meetings, medical appointments, paperwork etc and the railway machine isn't known for doing things quickly! Certainly not a case of being paid off 6 weeks after a fatality.
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A friend of mine who is a BTP officer said that we (ie the emergency services) are paid to deal with the aftermath of such incidents but railway staff are not.

True to a point. Obviously rail staff are trained to an extent in fatalities and whilst a driver would be forgiven for making mistakes after such an incident they are expected to do a certain amount before handing over control of the scene to someone else.

The real difference between the driver and anyone else is that a driver isn't expecting it. Sitting there relaxed driving their train with everything normal when suddenly they are involved in such an incident. It will generally happen in a few seconds leaving the driver very little reaction time and so leads to many 'what ifs' and 'whys' running through their mind along with the shock. Whilst I'm not saying it's easy or pleasant for anyone else at least the shock is less considering everyone else (other rail staff and emergency services) have a bit of time to mentally prepare for what they are about to see. It certainly don't make it much easier to see the aftermath but it's not as much a surprise and sudden shock as it is for the driver.

 

[Jonny]

Are there many suicide attempts on the roads or do they just not make the headlines ?

There was an attempt by a former professional footballer who jumped in front of a lorry - a lot harder to do successfully though. Apparently, someone in America did manage to kill themselves by jumping in front of a truck.

 

[A-driver]

Are there many suicide attempts on the roads or do they just not make the headlines ?

No. Not really. Chances of dying by deliberately going under a car, even on a motorway, are very slim compared to a train. By the time you have run in front chances are the car/truck will swerve or brake and either cause an accident not involving you or fail to instantly kill you leaving you in pain.

Going in front of a train doing any kind of 'decent' speed (dosnt have to be 100+) will almost certainly end in a quick and instant death.

 

[TOCDriver]

I'll chip in with my very brief two pennies worth on this awful subject, but the biggest difference between the police and driver's experience is that the driver actually sees the incident live. They actually see that person living right before their very eyes; before that sickening and dreadful 'thud' confirms their passing. The police 'only' deal with the aftermath of the suicide, but to actually look into the eyes of that person just before their death is what really screws people up. And you can't really take your eyes off the situation or else how would you know they hadn't jumped away at the last minute? I speak from personal experience on the subject by the way

 

[mhwatson]

Even as a passenger I've witnessed two, one on a platform, one on a train which hit a person. I still feel apprehensive when passing under a certain bridge, though easier now it's light on an evening.

My thoughts with everyone involved, and hope the crews are able to work again.

Martin.

 

[Crossover]

Have to agree, I was on the train directly behind, and the driver was excellent. Explained everything sensitively, and gave regular updates. I didn't hear any adverse comments on the train as a result. Just shows what good communication does.

A family member made some mention that they believed the boards at Batley were saying about it being a person hit and why would they be so direct. Whilst I cannot confirm if this was the case at Batley, I don't think it is a bad idea to be up front about the problem. Certainly in the cases where human life has been endangered, I'm sure it'll make other travellers more sympathetic to the plight

 

[yorkie]

Anyone wishing to discuss yesterday's East Midlands Trains fatality in a respectful way can do so at Fatality involving 1D57 1715 St Pancras - Nottingham (22/04), where I've moved those posts to, however I have removed some remarks causing concern to several members, and content that referred to the deleted content.

Also just a gentle reminder of the Forum Rules, in particular those under the heading 'Respectful', and "if any content causes you concern, please alert us to it, by reporting (

) it." Please do not re-publish any content causing you concern. Thanks.

If anyone wishes to discuss any other fatality, please do so in a new thread (with appropriate title, and please avoid jargon such as headcodes without context) if appropriate, but please only post a new thread if you have substantial information to add, or if you are currently travelling and require travel information, or some other reason to justify a new thread.

 

[tony_mac]

I would like to add that it is worth reading the Samaritan's media guide for reporting suicide.

Remember that some of the people reading this forum will be vulnerable, and sometimes I think there could be a little more thought about how things are reported.
http://www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/press/Samaritans%20media%20factsheet%20-%20rail%20suicides.pdf
http://www.samaritans.org/media-centre/media-guidelines-reporting-suicide

Research shows that inappropriate reporting of suicide may lead to imitative or ‘copycat’ behaviour.

– Never say a method is quick, easy, painless or certain to result in death.

Avoid identifying the exact location of a suicide, for example by naming or showing a railway bridge, piece of track or level crossing. It is also dangerous to describe a location as quiet and isolated with fast trains going through. Doing so, may draw vulnerable people to the same or similar locations.

To contact the Samaritans, see their website:
http://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help-you/contact-us

 

[the sniper]

A friend of mine who is a BTP officer said that we (ie the emergency services) are paid to deal with the aftermath of such incidents but railway staff are not.

And paid less or nothing at all in some cases to do so...

I'll chip in with my very brief two pennies worth on this awful subject, but the biggest difference between the police and driver's experience is that the driver actually sees the incident live. They actually see that person living right before their very eyes; before that sickening and dreadful 'thud' confirms their passing. The police 'only' deal with the aftermath of the suicide, but to actually look into the eyes of that person just before their death is what really screws people up. And you can't really take your eyes off the situation or else how would you know they hadn't jumped away at the last minute? I speak from personal experience on the subject by the way

True. I think there's a cultural difference too though. While I agree with what you say, a PC/SPC can have much deeper involvement. The same person can end up picking the pieces out of the front of the train, closely examining the remains, watching the external CCTV of the incident, starting the processing of this person through the system and than having to go and sit in the living room of people who you've got to tell that their loved one, who you've been filling bags with earlier in the day, isn't coming home. This is just the job in the BTP/Police, most Sergeants or a shift Inspector would talk to you at the end of a shift to check you were alright and say that services were available should you need it. The culture just meant you moved on to the next crap situation/shift though, which in the case of the latter, without the luxuries of HIDDEN, might start well less than 12 hours after you've finished that shift. In TOCs fatalities are dealt with as much more of a bigger deal nowadays, even for non-driving grades.

I know if I hadn't been a Special Constable with BTP I'd have a very different attitude towards fatalities than I do now, though I'm not speaking from the perspective of a driver.