Shops & other venues that still insist on masks.

[bramling]

It reminds me of the equally patronising "thank you for driving carefully through our village" signs!




MARK

Yes. In this case, the “our village” has unpleasant undertones. We managed to get a special Covid variation of that of course, “cyclists stop panting virus through our village”, wasn’t it?

 

[Bantamzen]

English law may not require them, but nor does English law require businesses to accept customers, as long as they aren't breaking the various laws regarding equality. One beautiful thing about English law is that it isn't proscriptive, so it allows everything that isn't explicitly prohibited.

But as I said earlier, these businesses had financial help when the government required them to apply restrictions, so equally should they not respect the government's position once the restrictions were all lifted?

I work with data, yes, but I also strongly believe that businesses are free to set their own rules as long as they aren't discriminating against someone on the grounds of race, sex, etc. Not every business received support, nor did they even need it in some cases.

I don't understand why you would support setting rules that go against both the government's new position, or indeed the data. Covid seemed to spread perfectly happily when many more people were still wearing masks, and the data seems to support that. So the simple premise is, why continue to insist on them when 99% of businesses are back to normal? What's the goal other than try to appear to be virtuous?

Clapping and pot banging was ridiculous, and as mentioned by other people, NHS staff tended to absolutely hate it.

Keeping everyone from the virus was an impossibility, and it required a lot of personal responsibility on the part of individuals too. Wearing masks outside was and is ridiculous given what the science says (except at mass events), but wearing a mask inside was really a non-issue for me. I don't deny that it was tiring to wear it, but it wasn't the end of the world.

And herein was the problem, lots of restrictions were described as such, yet few (if any) actually had any discernible impact. And perceived risk levels in various indoor places were wildly different and often completely illogical. For example walking around a pub for a few seconds was at one time seen as high risk, hence masks being mandated, but the moment you sat down the risk reduced. Or supermarkets considered lower risk than an aircraft, despite the latter having much more effective air replacement & filtration systems.

The point is that for the most part, mask wearing was simply to remind us of the virus. Indeed right back at the beginning when they started to be mandated on public transport the government position was "to make people feel safe".

At the same time, I do think that it's pointless to try and protect people now. We've all had the chance to get three vaccines, and now it should be about solely personal responsibility. Poland actually has the right idea by requiring masks in medical settings (pharmacies, at the GP, in hospitals, etc) but not requiring them elsewhere. Unfortunately, a lot of people went immediately back to invading other people's personal space.

But really, if a business requires you to wear it and you don't want to wear it, why not just go elsewhere with a minimum of fuss? I'm boycotting Auchan for remaining in the Russian market, but I don't need to shout about it. I just don't go there.

Because so long as some continue with pointless, and largely ineffective measures, the longer there will continue to be some people trying to pressure people to carry on using them. As you rightly note there is no point trying to protect the majority of people, as of June last year the ONS estimated that 96% of the population had been exposed to the virus, a vaccine or both. Indeed for the majority of people there was more than 14 months of circulation before large scale vaccination really started to kick in. More than enough time for it to have spread around the majority of people.

Only when all the population accepts that the virus is now endemic, and is not going away can all relevant minds focus solely on mitigating the risk to those who are genuinely at risk without the background noise of people still believing that a flimsy bit of cloth across their face will save them / others from the virus. I still see it in my workplace for example, with our union still pushing hard to restrict numbers in offices, wanting forced mask mandates etc. Its noise we no longer need when focus needs to be getting the economy into full swing again, and start to make up some of those vast costs that the restrictions cost the country.

 

[jumble]

I'm not sure where I suggested we couldn't discuss things I was simply putting my point of view across about the issue?


Yes but that doesn't mean anyone at such a business or venue has been bothered enough to around meticulously taking them down. For most people it doesn't appear to be a priority. Why should it be?

Personally I don't think it achieves anything productive other than it seems to help people continue to be wound up about things which are, in most cases, not being done deliberately. I either don't notice signs or ignore them because I'm back to normal and some tattered sign from 2020 or 2021 isn't worth worrying about. As I said cases where a business is actually enforcing this sort of thing are different and I'd take my business elsewhere were they to try and insist on me wearing a mask or something. But 50p says the vast majority of cases are old out of date signage that someone will get around to either when they notice or when they need the space for something else. You'd be surprised how quickly signs and posters blend into the background when you're around them all the time in your place of work. I couldn't honestly tell you right now what posters we've got up in our reception because I don't notice them apart from the first time I see them.

Do you think it is in any way acceptable to maintain posters that threaten people with prosecution if they do not wear masks ?

TFL Carried on with this for some time after the rules were removed and in some cases still 2 weeks ago
Outside Rayners Lane Station ( still there I think)
Uxbridge Bus station
Woolwich Ferry North side but curiously not South side
Tramlink Wandle Park ( 2 weeks ago)

And herein was the problem, lots of restrictions were described as such, yet few (if any) actually had any discernible impact. And perceived risk levels in various indoor places were wildly different and often completely illogical. For example walking around a pub for a few seconds was at one time seen as high risk, hence masks being mandated, but the moment you sat down the risk reduced. Or supermarkets considered lower risk than an aircraft, despite the latter having much more effective air replacement & filtration systems.

The point is that for the most part, mask wearing was simply to remind us of the virus. Indeed right back at the beginning when they started to be mandated on public transport the government position was "to make people feel safe".

And still is on TFL Posters that strongly recommend masks because they make all of us feel safe (HaHa)

 

[ainsworth74]

Do you think it is in any way acceptable to maintain posters that threaten people with prosecution if they do not wear masks ?

TFL Carried on with this for some time after the rules were removed and in some cases still 2 weeks ago
Outside Rayners Lane Station ( still there I think)
Uxbridge Bus station
Woolwich Ferry North side but curiously not South side
Tramlink Wandle Park ( 2 weeks ago)

No that is clearly more serious as the threat of criminal sanctions should only be levied where the relevant law provides for such a sanction, but I don't recall any shops or other businesses, which is what I was talking about, having signs that threatened prosecution to worry about! I'm sure they may have existed but no examples spring to mind.

 

[bramling]

But as I said earlier, these businesses had financial help when the government required them to apply restrictions, so equally should they not respect the government's position once the restrictions were all lifted?


I don't understand why you would support setting rules that go against both the government's new position, or indeed the data. Covid seemed to spread perfectly happily when many more people were still wearing masks, and the data seems to support that. So the simple premise is, why continue to insist on them when 99% of businesses are back to normal? What's the goal other than try to appear to be virtuous?


And herein was the problem, lots of restrictions were described as such, yet few (if any) actually had any discernible impact. And perceived risk levels in various indoor places were wildly different and often completely illogical. For example walking around a pub for a few seconds was at one time seen as high risk, hence masks being mandated, but the moment you sat down the risk reduced. Or supermarkets considered lower risk than an aircraft, despite the latter having much more effective air replacement & filtration systems.

The point is that for the most part, mask wearing was simply to remind us of the virus. Indeed right back at the beginning when they started to be mandated on public transport the government position was "to make people feel safe".


Because so long as some continue with pointless, and largely ineffective measures, the longer there will continue to be some people trying to pressure people to carry on using them. As you rightly note there is no point trying to protect the majority of people, as of June last year the ONS estimated that 96% of the population had been exposed to the virus, a vaccine or both. Indeed for the majority of people there was more than 14 months of circulation before large scale vaccination really started to kick in. More than enough time for it to have spread around the majority of people.

Only when all the population accepts that the virus is now endemic, and is not going away can all relevant minds focus solely on mitigating the risk to those who are genuinely at risk without the background noise of people still believing that a flimsy bit of cloth across their face will save them / others from the virus. I still see it in my workplace for example, with our union still pushing hard to restrict numbers in offices, wanting forced mask mandates etc. Its noise we no longer need when focus needs to be getting the economy into full swing again, and start to make up some of those vast costs that the restrictions cost the country.

I am in two minds on this. Ultimately shops, as private businesses, should be allowed the freedom to do what they want (exemptions aside, of course). I really don’t like it for a number of reasons, but ultimately if a shop wants to impose something then it is their prerogative, just as its ours not to patronise them.

Having said that, I do think the “we must move on” argument is sufficiently compelling that the government should certainly have been leaning on businesses to ditch all this stuff. A message along the lines of “you may wear a mask if you want to” would be more preferable, with the inference that wearing a mask is *not* the default norm.

There remains this very odd position in many walks of life where we’re ostensibly supposed to be back to normal, yet when it comes to it aren’t. I mentioned the other day about two people in train cabs - on the one hand we’re supposed to be free of all restrictions, yet on the other there’s still a requirement (at my place) for testing, masks and visors. Apart from the extra costs this is imposing at a time when we’re supposed to be tightening belts, and of course not helping with the inflation situation by imposing extra costs and red-tape, just when do people expect this all to no longer be required? Another two years? Five years? Zero cases? Zero deaths? Never? When they can’t afford their gas bills?

 

[danm14]

I work with data, yes, but I also strongly believe that businesses are free to set their own rules as long as they aren't discriminating against someone on the grounds of race, sex, etc.

Or disability, which is what "no mask, no entry, no exceptions" discriminates against.

 

[170TurboFan]

Or disability, which is what "no mask, no entry, no exceptions" discriminates against.

Seen that in several places near me in York, one is a hairdressers in Walmgate and a lot of places in Sheringham my home town, I tend to wear one to avoid world war three with those in a la la land. I very rarely wear one except for NHS buildings, even though I know they do not really work unless FFP2/3 in correct scenarios. My mate had one forced on him when getting one of his jabs by a security guard at the site even though he was exempt and then passed out with ambulance called. Making an embarrassment is perhaps an understatement.

 

[davews]

I noticed today that on Staines platform 1 near the lifts there is a 'face coverings must be worn in this area' sign. Is it just one they missed taking down?

 

[Watershed]

Seen plenty of social distancing markers still out and about. Most people take no notice (in a sense, that's no different to when social distancing was actually guidance!).

That said, it's much more common for people to avoid sitting next to strangers. I've seen many a train with rows of people sitting in the window seat but no aisle seats occupied.

 

[bengley]

I noticed today that on Staines platform 1 near the lifts there is a 'face coverings must be worn in this area' sign. Is it just one they missed taking down?

Yes.

 

[Jimini]

Not a shop, sadly, but GWR still peddling the old “rules”. The static board photo was taken at Reading on the overbridge. I’ll half let them off the outdated signage on the class 80-something (I’ll defer to the forum’s superior knowledge on that one!), but the sign they wheel out religiously at Reading station each day continues to vex me, somewhat!

 

[DelayRepay]

That said, it's much more common for people to avoid sitting next to strangers. I've seen many a train with rows of people sitting in the window seat but no aisle seats occupied.

I've noticed this too - it makes sense if the train isn't busy as it's more comfortable to have a double-seat to yourself regardless of Covid concerns, but it appears that some people seem to prefer standing to sitting next to a stranger.

The other thing I have noticed is in shops - people seem to still be spreading out a bit more in queues, even in shops where there are no longer any markers or instructions to do so. And in supermarkets a lot of people still seem hesitant to get too close, e.g. standing back and waiting instead of reaching past another customer to get something from the shelf.

 

[Smidster]

Yes.

There is one in Leeds that says you must follow Government advice to work from home and only travel if your journey is legally permissible.

 

[duncanp]

There is one in Leeds that says you must follow Government advice to work from home and only travel if your journey is legally permissible.

But the current government advice is that

• there is no need to work from home
• there are no COVID related restrictions on travel within the UK.

So you could go into the office every day, and travel wherever you like, and how often you like, and still give yourself a pat on the back for "following government advice"

 

[Class 33]

Not a shop, sadly, but GWR still peddling the old “rules”. The static board photo was taken at Reading on the overbridge. I’ll half let them off the outdated signage on the class 80-something (I’ll defer to the forum’s superior knowledge on that one!), but the sign they wheel out religiously at Reading station each day continues to vex me, somewhat!

I have an awful feeling they're going to peddling that "Thank you for wearing a face covering, if you can. Out of courtesy to others." nonsense on signage and those awful LOUD automated PA announcements on their trains for months and MONTHS to come yet. Probably even into until at least 2023. It's high time they packed it in with this nonsense by now, as they should easily be able to see that the number of people NOT wearing face coverings far exceeds the number of people wearing them! There's simply no need to wear face coverings to be courteous to others, if the vast majority of passengers are no longer wearing them anyway! GWR just doesn't seem to understand that!!! I think they do know though that the vast majority of passengers on their services are no longer wearing them, but they don't like to admit it!

 

[gabrielhj07]

I have an awful feeling they're going to peddling that "Thank you for wearing a face covering, if you can. Out of courtesy to others." nonsense on signage and those awful LOUD automated PA announcements on their trains for months and MONTHS to come yet. Probably even into until at least 2023. It's high time they packed it in with this nonsense by now, as they should easily be able to see that the number of people NOT wearing face coverings far exceeds the number of people wearing them! There's simply no need to wear face coverings to be courteous to others, if the vast majority of passengers are no longer wearing them anyway! GWR just doesn't seem to understand that!!! I think they do know though that the vast majority of passengers on their services are no longer wearing them, but they don't like to admit it!

I think that after a certain amount of time, the travelling public will become impervious to the signs and announcements from the covid era. How many people do we reckon could tell us the BTP number, despite the endless 'see it, say it, sorted' nonsense. I know anecdotally and from observing people, even on places such as the tube, that people have already made up their mind on whether they'll wear a mask or whatever, not being affected by instructions & signs.

Also, do you find that the volume for the part of the announcement that speaks about these rules is significantly higher than for the rest? I've noticed several times that an on-board announcement proceeds at a normal volume, but then it starts shouting at you. Most obnoxious.

 

[Class 33]

I think that after a certain amount of time, the travelling public will become impervious to the signs and announcements from the covid era. How many people do we reckon could tell us the BTP number, despite the endless 'see it, say it, sorted' nonsense. I know anecdotally and from observing people, even on places such as the tube, that people have already made up their mind on whether they'll wear a mask or whatever, not being affected by instructions & signs.

Also, do you find that the volume for the part of the announcement that speaks about these rules is significantly higher than for the rest? I've noticed several times that an on-board announcement proceeds at a normal volume, but then it starts shouting at you. Most obnoxious.

Yes, those GWR nonsense "Thank you for wearing a face covering, if you can. Out of courtesy to others" automated PA announcements ARE definitely at a louder volume than the other automated PA announcements. They're incredibly annoying, and why I'm refusing to use GWR services at the moment until they finally give it up and scrap them. Am just about to fire off a complaint email to GWR CEO Mark Hopwood about it. But I expect I'll still probably get a nonsense reply back again defending their use of these stupid pointless announcements.

Whilst in Bognor Regis yesterday, I noticed a fair number of shops in the town centre still had signs on their doors about "Please wear a face mask" and even some with "In line with government guidance you MUST wear a face covering unless exempt". We don't HAVE to wear face mask/covering/muzzle in shops atall now, this was scrapped 3 and a half months ago now!!! There is no longer ANY government guidance that we MUST wear a face covering in shops! Some even got notices about "Keep your distance" and "Stay 2 metres apart"!!!! Social distancing nuisancing restrictions were scrapped nearly 10 months ago now!!!

See below this photo I took of a notice on the door at the WHSmith. How can the manager/staff of this shop not be aware that mandatory face mask laws are long scrapped now, and that they should have long taken this notice down?

Of course, if you go in these such shops not wearing a face muzzle then chances are most other people won't be doing so either, and the staff won't challenge you about it. They have no legal right to do so. But nevertheless, it is still unnacceptable that a fair number of shops are still displaying notices like this on their entry doors! It really is high time to move on completely from all this nonsense now!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Brian's Newsagents, next door to the railway station in Seaford.

Still insisting on masks and one customer only inside at a time.

Avoid like the... err... plague....

 

[Class 33]

Brian's Newsagents, next door to the railway station in Seaford.

Still insisting on masks and one customer only inside at a time.

Avoid like the... err... plague....

Shops like this shouldn't be allowed to operate with nonsense restrictions like this. It really should be ILLEGAL for them to operate with nonsense like that. Insisting on face masks and strict social distancing restrictions??!!! We're in May 2022 now, NOT July 2020!!

Any shops still enforcing those nonsense restrictions need to go out of business in my opinion.

 

[Bishopstone]

Brian's Newsagents, next door to the railway station in Seaford.

Still insisting on masks and one customer only inside at a time.

Avoid like the... err... plague....

A nice chap, and one of several newsagents I visit, depending on my movements, to pick-up the daily paper.

There’s a Morrisons and Tesco Express around the corner for those who don’t want to do the mask thing.

 

[yorkie]

I would absolutely not be visiting and I hope people boycott them and they are forced to either change their policy or go out of business.

Who carries a mask with them these days anyway?!

 

[43096]

Who carries a mask with them these days anyway?!

Still a few around wearing them outside that I saw yesterday. All of them just covering the mouth and not the nose!

 

[Freightmaster]

There’s a Morrisons and Tesco Express around the corner for those who don’t want to do the mask thing.

But that's the whole point - nobody should have to do 'the mask thing' at this stage of the pandemic whether they 'want to' or not.


And as Yorkie quite rightly points out, most people don't even have masks on them these days unless planning to visit a healthcare setting;
I binned all mine back in March!





MARK

 

[Jimini]

My wife's driving instructor still insists on her wearing one. Drives (sorry) me mad, seeing her putting one on each week.

 

[Watershed]

Today I saw someone wearing a mask with just one strap over their ear, the other side hanging down their face. Neither their mouth nor their nose were covered at all

You've just got to wonder what or who people like that think they're doing it for?

 

[NoOnesFool]

I will never wear a mask. Shops that try to force/coerce in to doing so will not get my custom.

 

[johntea]

LNER have a bizarre ‘face covering or not we love to see happy faces’ advert now!

 

[Essan]

Instead of ranting and raving on social media, maybe in cases like this the better course or action would be a polite message to the business to point out that they still have an old notice showing on their website?

 

[ainsworth74]

It really should be ILLEGAL for them to operate with nonsense like that.

I don't see any reason for it to be illegal but I'd be 100% taking my business elsewhere if I came across a shop like that.

 

[Mag_seven]

LNER have a bizarre ‘face covering or not we love to see happy faces’ advert now!

An Oxymoron if ever there was one!