Shoreditch Overground: why not in Zone 2?

[LAX54]

The point is, you can only be on one train at a time, so the excuse that there are more trains is moot.

Nowhere else does an increase in choice make a product more expensive.

so based on that theory, there should only ever be one zone to cover the whole of London and Suburbs !

 

[jbg]

so based on that theory, there should only ever be one zone to cover the whole of London and Suburbs !

Not even close.

 

[tbtc]

Where else does the increase in choice cause a rise in unit price?

The railway has plenty of examples of frequent/ busy urban routes (that have peak fares, ticketing restrictions etc) and infrequent/ quiet/ rural routes (that have no such price hikes. This leads to fare anomalies, whereby people can travel further cheaper (e.g. peak services out of Euston).

As for the other stuff on this thread - if you are going to have a zonal system then there will always be stations that fall "just inside" or "just outside" particular zones. Pardon the pun, but somebody has to draw the line somewhere.

If anything, Shoreditch is more "central" nowadays, given the changes in population/ shopping etc in that neck of the woods. It's no further out of town than Lambeth/ Gloucester Road/ Bayswater etc.

 

[jbg]

The railway has plenty of examples of frequent/ busy urban routes (that have peak fares, ticketing restrictions etc) and infrequent/ quiet/ rural routes (that have no such price hikes. This leads to fare anomalies, whereby people can travel further cheaper (e.g. peak services out of Euston).

As for the other stuff on this thread - if you are going to have a zonal system then there will always be stations that fall "just inside" or "just outside" particular zones. Pardon the pun, but somebody has to draw the line somewhere.

If anything, Shoreditch is more "central" nowadays, given the changes in population/ shopping etc in that neck of the woods. It's no further out of town than Lambeth/ Gloucester Road/ Bayswater etc.

I asked "what else", I know our industry has no idea about economics, but that's not what I asked.

 

[Ianno87]

Really? How many trains can you manage to be on at the same time?



Surely as there are more people on the services, then there would be more money taken, so fares should be in fact lower.



Again, you can't be in two places at once.

Where else does the increase in choice cause a rise in unit price?

The East London Line shouldn't be seen as having "increased choice". It is filling a market need that wasn't satisfied previously, and is priced accordingly. It is historically suppressed demand that is filling up the trains - passengers previously travelling via another pre-existing route are in the relative minority.

If supply and gone up relative to demand remaining fairly static, then yes conventional economics would drive price down.

But in this case, the demand was there without the supply to stimulate it - resulting in people simply choosing not to travel at all. Put in the supply and people are happy to pay the Zone 1 price.

 

[jbg]

The East London Line shouldn't be seen as having "increased choice". It is filling a market need that wasn't satisfied previously, and is priced accordingly. It is historically suppressed demand that is filling up the trains - passengers previously travelling via another pre-existing route are in the relative minority.

If supply and gone up relative to demand remaining fairly static, then yes conventional economics would drive price down.

But in this case, the demand was there without the supply to stimulate it - resulting in people simply choosing not to travel at all. Put in the supply and people are happy to pay the Zone 1 price.

Happy? I wouldn't go that far.

 

[jbg]

Didnt it used to have a terrible service? so with increased service and patronage it makes sense.

Was an odd part of the Met wasnt it? And I certainly remember some sort of bus service on maps a while back even before conversion to LO or have I imagined that?

So by your logic, as we have only 1/4 of the frequency on a Sunday here, the ticket prices should be vastly reduced.

But of cause it doesn't work that way.

 

[MikeWh]

So by your logic, as we have only 1/4 of the frequency on a Sunday here, the ticket prices should be vastly reduced.

But of cause it doesn't work that way.

You seem to have a warped sense of logic in this thread, and also some wrong assumptions. Firstly, the old Shoreditch station was further East than the new Shoreditch High Street. It was alongside Brick Lane with no buses right outside. Now it is off Bethnal Green Road, just up from Bishopsgate and loads of buses.

The quality of service on a Sunday never determines price. Many branches and rural lines don't have any Sunday service.

Yes, it would have been nice for the whole Overground circle to be in zone 2, but as has been explained upthread, the old station was artificially placed in zone 2 for a number of reasons and the new station is just too close to city destinations to be anything other than zone 1. Limited service might have been a contributing factor towards the old station being in zone 2, but even if the new station was still a terminus and only served in the peak it would now be in zone 1.

You'll just have to get over it.

 

[jbg]

You seem to have a warped sense of logic in this thread, and also some wrong assumptions. Firstly, the old Shoreditch station was further East than the new Shoreditch High Street. It was alongside Brick Lane with no buses right outside. Now it is off Bethnal Green Road, just up from Bishopsgate and loads of buses.

The quality of service on a Sunday never determines price. Many branches and rural lines don't have any Sunday service.

Yes, it would have been nice for the whole Overground circle to be in zone 2, but as has been explained upthread, the old station was artificially placed in zone 2 for a number of reasons and the new station is just too close to city destinations to be anything other than zone 1. Limited service might have been a contributing factor towards the old station being in zone 2, but even if the new station was still a terminus and only served in the peak it would now be in zone 1.

You'll just have to get over it.

Maybe you try reading the OP.

I already said it was originally closer to the City, on at least to posts.

 

[MikeWh]

Maybe you try reading the OP.

I already said it was originally closer to the City, on at least to posts.

I know what you said in the OP. I also know where the old station was in relation to the new one. The old one was east of the new one. FACT.

 

[jimbo99]

I remember when the zones were first introduced - early 80s from memory - and a bloke from London Transport was discussing it on the TV. It mattered to me because it was about the time I started travelling into London.

He said that the Zone 1 was supposed to cover the area between BR's terminal stations - essentially the area inside the Circle Line, Northern Line between Euston and Moorgate, and down to London Bridge. (I think Borough and Aldgate East being in Zone 1 were exceptions to this, as they are today.)

There was a significant premium for using Zone 1. The reasoning was that the main terminals and tube lines in between were congested whereas further out there was free capacity. He said it was the same logic as offering cheaper fares after 9.30am or at weekends.

Based on the original logic, Shoreditch High Street probably "should" be in Zone 2. However, even if the original logic was indeed to disincentivise people from using Zone 1, or at least make them pay the price for doing so, with the Overground opening offering through commuting journeys so close to the centre, then as noted earlier, the revenue "loss" would be too great. Hence Zone 1.

 

[maniacmartin]

I used to commute into Shoreditch High St from Surrey Quays. I'd then walk to my office in Moorgate. Given the loadings I saw on the trains and its proximity to the City, it should be in Zone 1, otherwise it would be even more swamped with demand.

Central London is expanding eastwards. So much of London's recent construction has been to the east. This is demonstrated with the recent dual zoning to 2/3 of stations around Stratford. Shoreditch, Hackney etc are now trendy places to live, more popular and with the price tag to match. It makes sense to me that the zones are moving too.

 

[bb21]

This is ridiculous.