Shortformed services on Birmingham's Snow Hill lines, 21/04/16

Status
Not open for further replies.

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,613
Location
Macclesfield
With apologies to forum member ChrisHogan on a recent thread for comments I made to the contrary concerning London Midlands' Snow Hill services (http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129048), this evening I've been surprised to witness three peak time services on Birmingham's Snow Hill lines running shortformed. The following services have operated as two carriage tiddlers:

2S70 16:47 Worcester Foregate Street - Stratford upon Avon (Should be 3 cars)
2C64 17:15 Worcester Foregate Street - Dorridge (Should be 4 cars)
2S74 17:57 Stourbridge Junction - Stratford upon Avon (Should be 3 cars)

I wonder whether any forum members would be able to shed some light upon the reasons for the disruption to the normal diagrams: There were some signalling problems going on late afternoon yesterday, but as these were only adding around five minutes onto train times southbound through Snow Hill I assume that they can't have knocked the diagrams that far out of kilter?
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

sd0733

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2012
Messages
2,118
There was a car on the line somewhere down that way yesterday too may have caused some units to be out of place.
 

Class172

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
20 Mar 2011
Messages
3,364
Location
West Country
That was an issue between Ledbury and Hereford (not on the Snow Hill Line), so is unlikely to effect the locations of the 172s, given they only infrequently go beyond Worcester.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,613
Location
Macclesfield
Thanks for your thoughts,

I think that one of the fire damaged 172s is back in service as a complete 3-car unit now, not sure whether the other similarly afflicted unit has been restored to service yet, so this may have had an effect.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
12,905
Location
Caerphilly
It may have just been a bad day for availability with more sets stopped for repairs than usual.
 

azz7008

Member
Joined
17 Nov 2014
Messages
77
With apologies to forum member ChrisHogan on a recent thread for comments I made to the contrary concerning London Midlands' Snow Hill services (http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129048), this evening I've been surprised to witness three peak time services on Birmingham's Snow Hill lines running shortformed. The following services have operated as two carriage tiddlers:

2S70 16:47 Worcester Foregate Street - Stratford upon Avon (Should be 3 cars)
2C64 17:15 Worcester Foregate Street - Dorridge (Should be 4 cars)
2S74 17:57 Stourbridge Junction - Stratford upon Avon (Should be 3 cars)

I wonder whether any forum members would be able to shed some light upon the reasons for the disruption to the normal diagrams: There were some signalling problems going on late afternoon yesterday, but as these were only adding around five minutes onto train times southbound through Snow Hill I assume that they can't have knocked the diagrams that far out of kilter?



I'm not sure whether the 17:36 to Leamington Spa is supposed to be 3/2 car, but it's been dubbed the 'death train', purely due to the fact that they are usually so packed you can barely get on! Lucky for the people at the bottom end of the diagram we can catch 17:52 instead.
 

ChrisHogan

Member
Joined
15 Jan 2016
Messages
304
With apologies to forum member ChrisHogan on a recent thread for comments I made to the contrary concerning London Midlands' Snow Hill services (http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=129048), this evening I've been surprised to witness three peak time services on Birmingham's Snow Hill lines running shortformed. The following services have operated as two carriage tiddlers:

2S70 16:47 Worcester Foregate Street - Stratford upon Avon (Should be 3 cars)
2C64 17:15 Worcester Foregate Street - Dorridge (Should be 4 cars)
2S74 17:57 Stourbridge Junction - Stratford upon Avon (Should be 3 cars)

I wonder whether any forum members would be able to shed some light upon the reasons for the disruption to the normal diagrams: There were some signalling problems going on late afternoon yesterday, but as these were only adding around five minutes onto train times southbound through Snow Hill I assume that they can't have knocked the diagrams that far out of kilter?

Thank you. Class 172s are rather more complicated to maintain than the Class 150s they replaced. Hence the need for an extra maintenance unit although the diagrams don't help with everything out all day SX.

It is unusual for LM to short-form 2v4; normally it adjusts so that all formations are one vehicle short. The problem is that all the 3 cars formations heading towards Stourbridge and Kidderminster are already F&S leaving Snow Hill.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,613
Location
Macclesfield
I'm not sure whether the 17:36 to Leamington Spa is supposed to be 3/2 car, but it's been dubbed the 'death train', purely due to the fact that they are usually so packed you can barely get on! Lucky for the people at the bottom end of the diagram we can catch 17:52 instead.
That should be a 3 car train. It seems to me that the heaviest evening peak loadings through Birmingham Snow Hill, in the Tyseley direction at least, are tightly focused within a relatively short half hour period between 17:20 and 17:50, with trains half an hour to either side of this period busy, but not excessively so unless they are shortformed. The unfortunate 17:36 from Snow Hill to Leamington Spa falls directly into the middle of this period, of course.

I'm less familiar with evening peak loadings towards Stourbridge from Birmingham, except to say that they all look consistently very busy (full and standing, as ChrisHogan says above) between 17:00 and 18:00.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
It may have just been a bad day for availability with more sets stopped for repairs than usual.
Yeah, it could be something as straightforward as that. It just seemed unusual that so many were going through in the same direction as no more than two carriage trains within a fairly short period.
 
Last edited:

TH172341

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2010
Messages
388
That should be a 3 car train. It seems to me that the heaviest evening peak loadings through Birmingham Snow Hill, in the Tyseley direction at least, are tightly focused within a relatively short half hour period between 17:20 and 17:50, with trains half an hour to either side of this period busy, but not excessively so unless they are shortformed. The unfortunate 17:36 from Snow Hill to Leamington Spa falls directly into the middle of this period, of course.

I'm less familiar with evening peak loadings towards Stourbridge from Birmingham, except to say that they all look consistently very busy (full and standing, as ChrisHogan says above) between 17:00 and 18:00.


I've used the 17:36 a few times and it is usually full and standing. The southbound services are certainly busiest during the 17:00-18:00 period - it dies off after that. Going northbound I reckon might be worse - certainly services passing through around 17:00-18:00 are full.

Problem is, is that during the off peak on Weekdays is that the 2/3/4 car formations are more than adequate. It's just in the peaks, or on Saturday Afternoons, that things get worse. A couple of additional units and there wouldn't be a problem (hence my wish for the ex LO units to eventually work their way up).
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
10,613
Location
Macclesfield
Interestingly, I witnessed today the polar opposite of the situation I've described in this thread; a long-formed service, not something that the UK rail network is renowned for. ;)

The 14:52 Worcester Shrub Hill - Whitlocks End (15:47 at Snow Hill), and correspondingly the 16:19 Whitlocks End - Worcester Foregate Street, was formed of 5 coaches instead of 4.
 
Last edited:

Class172

Established Member
Associate Staff
Quizmaster
Joined
20 Mar 2011
Messages
3,364
Location
West Country
Interestingly, I witnessed today the polar opposite of the situation I've described in this thread; a long-formed service, not something that the UK rail network is renowned for. ;)

The 14:52 Worcester Shrub Hill - Whitlocks End (15:47 at Snow Hill), and correspondingly the 16:19 Whitlocks End - Worcester Foregate Street, was formed of 5 coaches instead of 4.

That simply is not allowed. Your eyes must have been deceiving you... :lol:
 

ChrisHogan

Member
Joined
15 Jan 2016
Messages
304
I've used the 17:36 a few times and it is usually full and standing. The southbound services are certainly busiest during the 17:00-18:00 period - it dies off after that. Going northbound I reckon might be worse - certainly services passing through around 17:00-18:00 are full.

Problem is, is that during the off peak on Weekdays is that the 2/3/4 car formations are more than adequate. It's just in the peaks, or on Saturday Afternoons, that things get worse. A couple of additional units and there wouldn't be a problem (hence my wish for the ex LO units to eventually work their way up).

A couple of additional units wouldn't be enough. It would just release the 2x170/6 in the am peak and the 153/170 combination that runs around in the afternoon at 75 mph. (There will doubtless be pressure to strengthen the Bromsgrove route once the new station at Bromsgrove opens with its 6-car platforms). The three cars need strengthening to four cars (and not with redundant 153s either).

There are also major problems on Sundays with inadequate formations as well as people having to queue for up to an hour at The Hawthorns on Saturday afternoons after football matches there.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top